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didyoumythme wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:19 am Funny memory - In high school we had to wear a white T-shirt to PE, so I grabbed one from my drawer and wore it at school. I noticed weird stitching over the nips, but asked my mom about it when I got home still wearing it. She gasped and said-
"Where did you get that?"
"My drawer."
"Take it off right now" (in hushed tone)
"But what are these markings?"
"Those are dads garments, take it off!"
I'm just glad no one at school called me out on my nip symbols.
We had a female 20 year old investigator we were teaching at the church each week since we couldn't teach her alone at her apartment. Half way through the lesson I notice she's wearing a men's cotton garment top. I didn't say anything at first. Then my companion notices and he asks her where she got the shirt? She said she grabbed it out of her room mates drawer. My companion asked her if her room mate was a man and if he was mormon. She replied, yes how did you know that?didyoumythme wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:19 am Funny memory - In high school we had to wear a white T-shirt to PE, so I grabbed one from my drawer and wore it at school. I noticed weird stitching over the nips, but asked my mom about it when I got home still wearing it. She gasped and said-
"Where did you get that?"
"My drawer."
"Take it off right now" (in hushed tone)
"But what are these markings?"
"Those are dads garments, take it off!"
I'm just glad no one at school called me out on my nip symbols.
Do you have any sources on this? If so, please share. I have had similar suspicions about the temple, and I would be fascinated to read more facts about this connection. Thank you in advance!
In my opinion, this comes from the "annointed quorum" who were the secret elite mormons hand picked and the first to receive temple ordinances and also among those first chosen to enter polygamy.shethinksdeep wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:59 amDo you have any sources on this? If so, please share. I have had similar suspicions about the temple, and I would be fascinated to read more facts about this connection. Thank you in advance!
I don't have any specific sources for this beyond what I have gleaned from the DAMU, and Occam's Razor.FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:41 amIn my opinion, this comes from the "annointed quorum" who were the secret elite mormons hand picked and the first to receive temple ordinances and also among those first chosen to enter polygamy.shethinksdeep wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:59 amDo you have any sources on this? If so, please share. I have had similar suspicions about the temple, and I would be fascinated to read more facts about this connection. Thank you in advance!
Thanks FiveFingerMnemonic & wtfluff! This is intriguing to me, and just proves that there is always more to learn and that you can always go deeper. I will be researching this to be sure. I appreciate the nudge.wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:07 amAs FiveFingerMnemonic mentioned, when Joseph originally plagiarized the endowment from the Masons, the only folks who received the endowment were people who were in on the secret of him practicing polygamy. We know for a fact that Joseph wanted to keep his polygamy secret, as there is ample documentation of him lying about it in public. The folks who were part of the "Anointed Quorum" didn't necessarily have to be practicing polygamy themselves, but they were part of his "inner group", and bottom line: The endowment is about keeping secrets.FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:41 am In my opinion, this comes from the "annointed quorum" who were the secret elite mormons hand picked and the first to receive temple ordinances and also among those first chosen to enter polygamy.
Mormon Think is a great place to start.shethinksdeep wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:42 am Thanks FiveFingerMnemonic & wtfluff! This is intriguing to me, and just proves that there is always more to learn and that you can always go deeper. I will be researching this to be sure. I appreciate the nudge.
The temple ceremony coincided with plural marriage as practiced by the early saints. As Joseph did not want to let the masses know about polygamy, he may have introduced the temple ceremony as a way of keeping polygamy a secret while introducing select members into the practice of plural marriage. As an important element of the temple ceremony is to never reveal what happens in the temple, even under penalty of death (before 1990), this would help keep the polygamous marriages a secret by the people that knew about them.
The following website provides some interesting speculation on this:
http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_legacy.htm
The new and everlasting covenant
The "new and everlasting covenant" revealed in the temple ceremony is generally considered by most modern LDS members as pertaining to celestial marriage. However in the early days of the Church, it clearly meant polygamy. LDS apologists do not dispute the original meaning of the term as referring to polygamy.
Thanks Red Ryder! I have read Mormon Think, but it has been awhile... and when I did... I devoured it and finished reading it in its entirety within a week. It doesn't surprise me that all of the details didn't stick - it was a lot of information at once. I have been thinking I should go back and read it at a slower pace (focusing on a topic at a time and using other sources as well) so I can digest it fully and remember the things that I have forgotten. This topic is probably the one I will start with!
Darn, that link doesn't seem to work anymore.Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:39 am The following website provides some interesting speculation on this:
http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_legacy.htm
If true, this could very well be an effort at subsidizing a waning garment industry for the church. Remember when little temples came out and everyone was encouraged to buy their own set of temple clothes? According to Daymon Smith in Book of Mammon, that was an effort to keep beehive clothing going so they wouldn't have to let workers go.Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:09 pm Tank top garments come out and I guarantee the majority of Mormon women suddenly have the need to immediately buy 10 new sets each. $$
Not that I'm complaining, I would be one of them. Especially if the fabric is suddenly breathable.
WOW! Never even thought that it could be a ploy for money. I am very skeptical of it all, but interesting conversation here.Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:09 pm Tank top garments come out and I guarantee the majority of Mormon women suddenly have the need to immediately buy 10 new sets each. $$
Not that I'm complaining, I would be one of them. Especially if the fabric is suddenly breathable.
Ugh! It sounds like Sunday afternoon at my in-laws!SeeNoEvil wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:20 am
Who wears garments and who doesn't
Who wears sleeves and who doesn't
Who drinks coffee or tea and who doesn't
Who went on a mission and who didn't
Who came home early and who didn't
Who went to BYU and who didn't
Who was married in the temple and who didn't
Who is temple worthy and who isn't
Who's a SAHM and who isn't
Who's spouse is a member and who's isn't
Who has a temple recommend and who doesn't
It was this connection that really made wearing garments painful for me and why I will never do so again. The more I learned about polygamy, Nauvoo, and the temple, the more keenly I was aware of the markings on my garments. I still wear boxer briefs and usually a white undershirt, at least to work, but now I do it because that's what's comfortable to me instead of comfort being a secondary consideration to my underwear being a reminder of polygamy.wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:07 amI don't have any specific sources for this beyond what I have gleaned from the DAMU, and Occam's Razor.FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:41 amIn my opinion, this comes from the "annointed quorum" who were the secret elite mormons hand picked and the first to receive temple ordinances and also among those first chosen to enter polygamy.shethinksdeep wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:59 am
Do you have any sources on this? If so, please share. I have had similar suspicions about the temple, and I would be fascinated to read more facts about this connection. Thank you in advance!
As FiveFingerMnemonic mentioned, when Joseph originally plagiarized the endowment from the Masons, the majority of his inner circle who received the endowment were people who were in on the secret of him practicing polygamy. We know for a fact that Joseph wanted to keep his polygamy secret, as there is ample documentation of him lying about it in public. The folks who were part of the "Anointed Quorum" didn't necessarily have to be practicing polygamy themselves, but they were part of his "inner group", and bottom line: The endowment is about keeping secrets.
Also, looking at the history of the temple: The Kirtland temple was pretty much nothing more than a glorified meeting house, where everyone was welcome inside. But once the Nauvoo temple was completed, everyone was not welcome inside, only the elite few were allowed inside to practice the secret rituals. What changed between Kirtland and Nauvoo? Polygamy.
As Lindsay Hansen Park says (probably not a direct quote): Literally everything in mormonism is related to polygamy somehow.