George A. Smith: Liar for Zion

[Hagoth]

It recently occurred to me that three of the stories that have been significant in my disaffection all lead back to one man: George A. Smith (not to be confused with his grandson George Albert Smith). This man was an apostle and member of the First Presidency but his biggest legacy seems to be the stories he invented.

Lie # 1: It could be that George A. Smith is the character most responsible for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. He made a lecture circuit around the southern Utah spreading intentional lies about the Baker-Fancher party which fed the fire that led to their slaughter. Among other incendiary comments, Smith claimed that the emigrants were poisoning the water sources of innocent Mormons, that they were somehow responsible for the stabbing death of Parley Pratt, and that they were carrying the pistol that killed Joseph Smith, with the intent of using it on Brigham Young.

Lie #2: The first recorded appearance of the infamous milk strippings story came from a conference talk given by George A. Smith, 18 years after the fact. 'Nuff said.

Lie #3: Every apologetic response to the Book of Abraham problem falls back on supposed eyewitness testimonies of a 40-foot long scroll that was seen in Joseph Smith's Mansion House. It turns out that there was only one such testimony, that of... wait for it... George A. Smith. This story comes to us by way of Hugh Nibley, who heard it third hand from his uncle. Not only does this story originate with G.A. Smith, but it is a 63 year-old recollection of something he claims to have seen when he was 5-years old.

[Just This Guy]

Interesting connection!

So was George A. Smith the original Paul H. Dunn?

[GoodBoy]

I know people just like him today. They feel free to share outlandish articles on facebook regardless of their source, spend zero time checking the validity of these stories, and add inflammatory comments.

[Hagoth]

Missed opportunity: I should have named this thread Lyin' for Zion.

[Abinidied]

Spot on! So . . . GAS (G.A.Smith) was a gasser? I wasn't aware of the mountain meadows connection - not well versed on that so thanks for sharing it. I'll follow that line as I think it's quite interesting - something I've been wanting to learn about for some time.

BTW, love your avatar for very personal reasons I can't expand on without letting my identity out of the bag. I'm not famous, but if some TBM phantom is haunting NOM, they might, using odd symbols and gestures, tell my bishop and I aint quite ready for that (I'm kidding - I'm not really that paranoid). Every time I see your avatar I do one of those laughs under my breath (where my wife thinks I'm having a light seizure) that says, ". . . that is so dead bang on."

[mooseman]

I know people just like him today. They feel free to share outlandish articles on facebook regardless of their source, spend zero time checking the validity of these stories, and add inflammatory comments.

This is actually why i think the church will countine to thrive. Actual history/ fact is dismissed as fake, fiction is believed to be real simply because it is familiar and comforting and actual issues are ignored people refuse to think that maybe they need to change be it political, educational, economical or religious. Some will of course, but not enough to make an impact.

[Not Buying It]

George A. Smith was Joseph's cousin. Fabricating things seemed to run in the family.

Among other incendiary comments, Smith claimed that the emigrants were poisoning the water sources of innocent Mormons, that they were somehow responsible for the stabbing death of Parley Pratt, and that they were carrying the pistol that killed Joseph Smith, with the intent of using it on Brigham Young.

Parley P. Should have known better than to steal the wife of a violent man. I'm not excusing Hector McLean, but I get tired of the insinuation when the story is told in Church that Pratt was killed because he was a missionary. He was no martyr. He was killed because he was a wife-stealer.

[moksha]

He was humorously known for sometimes removing his wig to wipe his brow while preaching. After seeing Smith remove his hair, glasses, and false teeth, Paiutes gave him the name Non-choko-wicher, or "takes himself apart".
-- Walker, Ronald W.; Richard E. Turley, Jr.; Glen M. Leonard (2008). Massacre at Mountain Meadows. Oxford University Press. p. 51.[20]

This gives new meaning to the idea of dissembling for Zion.

[Gatorbait]

It is difficult not to question almost any story from Mormon history before the invention of modern recording equipment.

After all, every thing invented by every religion that has ever existed began with a story.....but it does not mean the story is true.

For the most part George Smith was no different than Parley P. Pratt, John Taylor, of course Jos. Smith. All told tall tales. George was in good company with people who liked to spin a yarn. Perhaps the most blatant lies though were from Jos. Smith's dear sweet mom. The book that she wrote about the Smith family is certainly questionable, if not impossible to believe. That business of Jos. Smith and his leg surgery for one. First time I heard that I was just a kid, but even then I thought it was a made up story and not at all true.

Just saying....

[Corsair]

That business of Jos. Smith and his leg surgery for one. First time I heard that I was just a kid, but even then I thought it was a made up story and not at all true.

The story of Joseph's leg surgery bothered me as a child. Even as a young boy I realized that the Word of Wisdom was not a commandment yet because D&C 89 was not yet received. I could not think of any reason that Joseph should not have some relief from the obvious pain he would have during the surgery.

[wtfluff]

That business of Jos. Smith and his leg surgery for one. First time I heard that I was just a kid, but even then I thought it was a made up story and not at all true.

The leg surgery more than likely did happen:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... tml?pg=all

But again, as others have stated, that story's relevance to the Word of Wisdom as used by the church... Well it's a bit of a joke. To quote someone smarter than me:

But there are issues with the way the story represents Joseph's righteousness. Basically the COLDS uses this to teach little kids that Joseph refused to break the WoW - which didn't exist yet, and which he was apparently exempt from even as he taught it to others.

What little kid likes whisky? Even the smell of it will likely keep them from trying it. It's also possible that Joseph had been tried a nip before (it was his father's preferred drink) and it tasted nasty.

Even if the story is essentially true, it makes Joseph out to be something he was not; a non-drinker and prescient regarding the Word of Wisdom.

[AllieOop]

That business of Jos. Smith and his leg surgery for one. First time I heard that I was just a kid, but even then I thought it was a made up story and not at all true.

The story of Joseph's leg surgery bothered me as a child. Even as a young boy I realized that the Word of Wisdom was not a commandment yet because D&C 89 was not yet received. I could not think of any reason that Joseph should not have some relief from the obvious pain he would have during the surgery.

I spent a year or so researching Joseph's leg surgery (I learned a lot more than I'll bore you with here )

Here are a few facts:

There are only 2 sources for the story of the surgery:

1. The first time we read about the surgery is in a handwritten note (in Willard Richard's handwriting) added to Joseph Smith's history. Richards added this note in December, 1842 (thus too late to be included in the "Times and Seasons" publication of the history that had commenced in March, 1842). This note was written in first person (as if Joseph himself wrote it....which is typical of what Richards did) and does not mention anything about the refusal of alcohol.

2. The only other version of the surgery comes from Lucy (dictated in 1844-1845 after Joseph's death). As far as I have found in my searching and reading, she never mentioned this surgery when Joseph was still alive (that we have record of). It's only in her version that the refusal of alcohol is mentioned as anesthesia for the surgery. I found no other contemporary who even stated that Joseph had gone through a surgery on his leg or that he had a severe limp (which he would have had if Lucy's description of the surgery is correct).

- As a side note, the church has published over and over again that it was the famous Dr. Nathan Smith who performed the surgery, but Lucy named the surgeon as being a "Dr. Stone" ("I appealed to the principal physician; saying, 'Dr. Stone, can you not make another trial? Can you not, by cutting around the bone, take out the diseased part?'") and she does not name any Dr. Smith (which is a bit odd because Nathan Smith was very well known by the time she wrote this history (1844-45) and it seems she would have capitalized on this famous doctor performing Joseph's surgery if he had).

The only mention of a "Dr. Smith" is in Willard Richard's note and he does not give any first name. So there is actually no record naming "Nathan Smith" as the surgeon.

However, IF it was the famous Dr. Nathan Smith who performed the surgery, here is what I found regarding him:

Dr. Nathan Smith was unique for his day, not only because of the types of treatment and surgeries he successfully performed, but because he refused to use any type of liquor (for himself or his patient for pain) during surgeries. This was most likely due to the fact that the doctor he was a pupil of and assisted in his early years, Dr. Josiah Goodhue, refused to use liquor and taught young Nathan the same standards."

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[Red Ryder]

However, IF it was the famous Dr. Nathan Smith who performed the surgery, here is what I found regarding him:

Dr. Nathan Smith was unique for his day, not only because of the types of treatment and surgeries he successfully performed, but because he refused to use any type of liquor (for himself or his patient for pain) during surgeries. This was most likely due to the fact that the doctor he was a pupil of and assisted in his early years, Dr. Josiah Goodhue, refused to use liquor and taught young Nathan the same standards."

That's fascinating. The church changes the facts to fit its narrative and support a faithful version. Institutional dishonesty?

Allie, you must have done a lot of research and I'm glad you continue to share it with us.

[AllieOop]

However, IF it was the famous Dr. Nathan Smith who performed the surgery, here is what I found regarding him:

Dr. Nathan Smith was unique for his day, not only because of the types of treatment and surgeries he successfully performed, but because he refused to use any type of liquor (for himself or his patient for pain) during surgeries. This was most likely due to the fact that the doctor he was a pupil of and assisted in his early years, Dr. Josiah Goodhue, refused to use liquor and taught young Nathan the same standards."

That's fascinating. The church changes the facts to fit its narrative and support a faithful version. Institutional dishonesty?

Allie, you must have done a lot of research and I'm glad you continue to share it with us.

Thanks I tend to become obsessed with a topic and Joseph's leg surgery was one of them a few years ago. I learned some interesting things. But I won't derail Hagoth's thread any further Maybe I'll post in a separate topic/thread what I found at another time.

[AllieOop]

It recently occurred to me that three of the stories that have been significant in my disaffection all lead back to one man: George A. Smith (not to be confused with his grandson George Albert Smith). This man was an apostle and member of the First Presidency but his biggest legacy seems to be the stories he invented.

Lie # 1: It could be that George A. Smith is the character most responsible for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. He made a lecture circuit around the southern Utah spreading intentional lies about the Baker-Fancher party which fed the fire that led to their slaughter. Among other incendiary comments, Smith claimed that the emigrants were poisoning the water sources of innocent Mormons, that they were somehow responsible for the stabbing death of Parley Pratt, and that they were carrying the pistol that killed Joseph Smith, with the intent of using it on Brigham Young.

Hagoth, I've meant to post in this thread regarding your comment above (George A. Smith's role in the MMM), but am just now getting around to it

You are spot on with your analysis of Smith. He was not a good man. MMM is another topic I've obsessed over (mainly because I have an ancestor...Jesse N. Smith... who played a role in it and I wanted to learn more about his involvement).

Here is some of what I wrote in some correspondence I had with Will Bagley (he used one of the entries in Jesse's journal that I own to help him with his timeline of the massacre for one of his books) and he agreed with my assessment of George A. Smith:

" I know that George A. Smith was in Brigham Young's pocket from his actions regarding the Mountain Meadows Massacre. He was the main player in all of this and the one who did Young's dirty work."

"George A. Smith was Brigham's messenger who brought the message of what was to be done to the doomed wagon company down to the leaders in Parowan and Cedar City. He traveled all over southern Utah giving heated speeches to church members to get them fired up, filled with hatred and vengeance, and violence towards the emigrants. He also gave the order to the church members to not give or sell these emigrants any food or supplies (if they did, they were either killed or severely beaten). Jesse N. Smith and his brother, Silas traveled around southern Utah with George A. Smith at this time."

"George A. Smith traveled around Southern Utah in the weeks before the massacre getting people worked up into a frenzy over being invaded by an army and also worked on getting the Indians riled up about any intruders. Jesse was with George A. Smith when they camped right next to the Fancher party a week or so before the massacre at Corn Creek where they claimed the immigrants poisoned the water and the meat that killed some of the Indians."

There's a lot more, but this just gives an idea of the main role that George A. Smith played in the massacre. We have to remember that this was also during the years of the reformation in Utah and these years were filled with fear (terror actually) for the saints because of how they were being treated by Brigham Young and other leaders (mainly Jedediah Grant and George A. Smith who they feared almost as much as they feared BY).






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[AllieOop]

Just to have a face to put with the name, here's what George A. Smith looked like:





Also, for reference (as it gets confusing with the different George Alberts), he was the son of John Smith (Joseph Smith Sr.'s brother). So, George A. Smith was a first cousin of Joseph Smith, Jr.



**********************

[deacon blues]

That business of Jos. Smith and his leg surgery for one. First time I heard that I was just a kid, but even then I thought it was a made up story and not at all true.

The story of Joseph's leg surgery bothered me as a child. Even as a young boy I realized that the Word of Wisdom was not a commandment yet because D&C 89 was not yet received. I could not think of any reason that Joseph should not have some relief from the obvious pain he would have during the surgery.

I spent a year or so researching Joseph's leg surgery (I learned a lot more than I'll bore you with here )

Here are a few facts:

There are only 2 sources for the story of the surgery:

1. The first time we read about the surgery is in a handwritten note (in Willard Richard's handwriting) added to Joseph Smith's history. Richards added this note in December, 1842 (thus too late to be included in the "Times and Seasons" publication of the history that had commenced in March, 1842). This note was written in first person (as if Joseph himself wrote it....which is typical of what Richards did) and does not mention anything about the refusal of alcohol.

2. The only other version of the surgery comes from Lucy (dictated in 1844-1845 after Joseph's death). As far as I have found in my searching and reading, she never mentioned this surgery when Joseph was still alive (that we have record of). It's only in her version that the refusal of alcohol is mentioned as anesthesia for the surgery.

The only mention of a "Dr. Smith" is in Willard Richard's note and he does not give any first name. So there is actually no record naming "Nathan Smith" as the surgeon.

However, IF it was the famous Dr. Nathan Smith who performed the surgery, here is what I found regarding him:

Dr. Nathan Smith was unique for his day, not only because of the types of treatment and surgeries he successfully performed, but because he refused to use any type of liquor (for himself or his patient for pain) during surgeries. This was most likely due to the fact that the doctor he was a pupil of and assisted in his early years, Dr. Josiah Goodhue, refused to use liquor and taught young Nathan the same standards."

************************

That's an interesting quote Allie Oop. Where did you find it?

[Spicy McHaggis]

That last point, about him being a witness 63 years after the fact along with the fact that he was 5 when he supposedly witnessed it: About 10 years ago the Ensign had an article quoting several people who witnessed Joseph Smith and his wonderful, prophetic persona. The trouble was that every single witness the Ensign quoted were very young children in 1844 and recalled their "witness" in the 1890s or later. Does anyone remember the Ruuntu blog (he was going through the loss of faith and blogging about it)? It was Ruuntu who looked up all the witness quotes and discovered that some of them were as young as 4 (I think) when JS died.

[deacon blues]

I find the quote about Nathan Smith and Josiah Goodhue not using alchohol in their treatment could be an explanation for Lucy's story about Joseph refusing alchohol. I believe Joseph's operation is substantially verified, but some of the details from Lucy's account seem suspect, particularly the conversation Joseph has with the doctor and Lucy during the operation.

[deacon blues]

The odd thing about the churches concept of faith is that it almost compels people to stretch, color, hide, or hide from the truth in order to protect or defend their faith.