NOM

I recently watched the Mormon Stories about Justin Sweeney. An attorney from California who is actively attending and actively questioning his beliefs.
I really related to his questioning and pain as he searched for the truth. I too wanted to find the truth.
One of the things he said that stuck with me was he said you cannot have faith in something that is not true.
I agree. You cannot have faith in something that is not true.
Sometimes our own environment and traditions cause us to believe in things that are not true. But once we find the fault in our thinking and realize what is true, we can no longer have faith in it. The easiest example is Santa Clause.
Thoughts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw1jIXWLM ... FzdA%3D%3D

I hate the T word.

Santa has always been kind and generous to my family in the past, present, and hopefully the future. He’s really a nice guy that has the betterment of humanity on his mind. He doesn’t require my devotion, unwavering faith, or special red and white underwear with fluffy white trim. His hats are cool though and I have no problems wearing those on occasion. The only thing he seems to care about is whether I’ve been naughty and nice and paying the credit card bill in January. The benefits of belief far out way the minimum requirements.

I can’t compare his truth to the religious tenants of my youth. While both beliefs involve elements of faith and imagination, they serve very different roles in our lives and cultures.

While both beliefs can inspire imagination and joy, the belief in Santa Claus is a culturally celebrated myth with limited, usually temporary, influence on one’s identity. In contrast, belief in God often forms the core of a person’s ethical, existential, and communal framework.

Losing belief in Santa is generally a simple step in the journey from childhood to adulthood, whereas losing belief in God can lead to deep personal and social transformations. This is why the two are not directly comparable in terms of their impact on a my life.

Losing belief in the church was a foundational shift that changed me permanently. Not because it was supposed to be true. But rather because the truth sayers simply lied about it and savagely attack the truth seekers for asking for honesty… and truth.

Losing belief in Santa Clause merely makes me question if I should put the lights up on the house again this year.

Great episode. Justin’s mom is in my stake. Rumor has it she likes a good coffee before teaching seminary.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 9:51 pm Santa has always been kind and generous to my family in the past, present, and hopefully the future.

Santa gives and the Church takes.

Unbelief in Santa Claus as we transition to adulthood seems universal. Whereas unbelief in the church is not universal because there is still a strong cultural pressure to believe and our friendships and family relationships are tied to these beliefs it seems. That's why mixed faith marriages are hard. Mine seems to work when my unbelief is ignored and hidden from my kids. At some point though I'm going to have to open up to my kids about it and then that will be hard on my wife--what to do?

2bizE wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:23 pm ...
One of the things he said that stuck with me was he said you cannot have faith in something that is not true.
I agree. You cannot have faith in something that is not true.
...
Thoughts?
...

One cannot have faith in something that is not true?

That's the MORmON definition of faith in Alma 32:21 "Faith is the hope for things which are not seen which are true."

Sorry, but I think it's absolutely possible to have faith in things which are not true.

"You just gotta have faith" is the answer given to me as a reason for believing in things which are patently unprovable - which means those thing just as likely to be "Not True" as they are to be "True."

Prove me wrong?



I guess we have to find of definition of "True" eh? Likely not possible...




Edit: Corrected a sentence.

Fluffy you are dead RIGHT!
Faith is NOT knowing. Period, stop, next topic, the end.
That's why opposing faiths are ALWAYS wrong.

Anyway I really liked the Justin Sweeney episodes.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:47 pm

One cannot have faith in something that is not true?

That's the MORmON definition of faith in Alma 32:21 "Faith is the hope for things which are not seen which are true."
[/quote]
The not seen part is easy. The true part is where it gets tricky. When the Heaven's Gate guys killed themselves they were just as certain the unseen spaceship was real as Mormons claim unseen Kolob to be. The problem is that both cults have exactly the same amount of evidence for their unseen thing.

As for Santa Clause, according to neuroscientist E. Fuller Torrey, a child in the age range of 8-10 (Mormon age of accountability) does not have a sufficiently developed brain to conceptually differentiate between God and Santa Clause. I'm not sure I do either. I must have plateaued intellectually around the time I passed my baptism interview.