NOM

I came across this old saying this morning and applying in our current political climate made me see it in a new light.
An AI explanation came up that said: "some people justify this view, believing it is better to work to improve an institution from within.
That made me think about the Church, because I've heard it said, "If you disagree with a practice in the LDS Church, work from within the Church to change it.
Personally, I can't work within the Church because its truth claim, to me, are BS.
Has anyone else considered taking a path to fix LDS Church problems from within the Church?

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 10:18 am I came across this old saying this morning and applying in our current political climate made me see it in a new light.
An AI explanation came up that said: "some people justify this view, believing it is better to work to improve an institution from within.
That made me think about the Church, because I've heard it said, "If you disagree with a practice in the LDS Church, work from within the Church to change it.
Personally, I can't work within the Church because its truth claim, to me, are BS.
Has anyone else considered taking a path to fix LDS Church problems from within the Church?

I've heard that said also. But the church does not encourage active discussion or reflective conversations between members, no matter how thoughtful. In the past 20 years, most of the Mormon dissidents we know on social media have received some kind of disciplinary action. It's either the brethren's way or the highway. Many people going through a faith transition will find it so much easier to go inactive, rather than face the social stigma of church discipline.
One of the few dissidents I know who has managed to avoid discipline but has managed to be a prominent voice for change from within is Carol Lynn Pearson.
But I don't know of too many other dissidents who have managed to make any changes from within. JMO. -- Wndr.

I understand the logic. Mormonism does respond to pressure from within to change, but it is a VERY SLOW process. The church is setup in such a way to actively limit change. Dissent is frowned upon and leadership is encouraged to tow the party line. Members are actively taught to avoid thinking for themselves and that counter thinking is bad. Because of this, changes can take years or even decades to come to fruition. But is does happen. You just have to have patience that will make saints get restless.

The church does respond to pressure to change from within, eventually. So there does need to be people from within to push for evolution and change. However, someone who can put up with that is a truly special type of person.

Myself, I don't have that patience. For me it is better to cut myself off from the church and go my separate way. That is what may family and I had to to for our health and sanity. My choice was to vote with my wallet and walk away. We are happier with that. But that choice doesn't work for everyone.

It is my country, right or wrong because when it is wrong, I can openly disagree and vote against them. Well, at least before Trump I could. Now it could cost me my job or social security. But I have hope of it going back to a democracy.

But the church has always been different. I can be punished for disagreeing openly and I get zero chance to vote them out when I disagree. So, my only option is to leave and then talk and put up here why I left in the hope that it gets back to our dictator and he changes things.

So, with my country I have hope of change from within but my church, the best and safest way to change it is to get out so I am safe from punishment, then talk about it in the hope that I can change it from without. There is little chance of change from within, but the church does get feedback from the internet discussions of its problems. So my best way of changing the church is go public with criticism from a safe distance.

So, my country (unless Trump stays in power) right or wrong, but not my church right or wrong.

I think a prime example of attempting to change the church "from within" would be Nemo the Mormon. He tried for a number of years until top leadership had had enough and then they excommunicated the "thorn in their side".
I felt badly for him and although he was quite sincere I thought he was naive to think the 1st Pres. wouldn't give him the axe. He was pretty pushy even though he was right. Church leadership doesn't care for being pushed.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:52 pm I think a prime example of attempting to change the church "from within" would be Nemo the Mormon. He tried for a number of years until top leadership had had enough and then they excommunicated the "thorn in their side".
I felt badly for him and although he was quite sincere I thought he was naive to think the 1st Pres. wouldn't give him the axe. He was pretty pushy even though he was right. Church leadership doesn't care for being pushed.

Sam Young is also a good example of trying to change the church from within. It eventually made an impact shortly after he got the axe.

I tend to agree with the comments above. I likely have more effect on bad Church policies being outside the bubble than within. I still haven't resigned, so I can't say I am really out I guess.