NOM

Joseph Smith lost the 116 pages because he so desperately needed Martin's $3000 that he risked the entire project, even after God told him TWICE not to do it. Then God had to dictate an entire section of the D&C (Section 19) to try to scare/woo Martin into coughing up the money. He even appealed to Martin's Universalism by claiming that he had lied to his prophets and apostles from the beginning about the existence of Hell; not a real place, just a scary story to manipulate people.

But my big question is why couldn't the Great Elohim, master and creator of the entire freakin' universe fix it just once so one of Joseph's treasures didn't sink away into the earth. Or, why couldn't he show Joseph in the seer stone where to find a medium-size gold nugget. As far as I can tell, God was exactly as desperate for money as his prophet Joseph Smith.

Seeing that the Savior directed Peter where to find a fish that had swallowed a silver coin so that Peter could pay their temple taxes......I have to come to the conclusion that Heavenly Father just wasn't working with Joseph in the first place and never did. (Matt.17 24-27)

Why don't all churches emulate Jesus and pay taxes- voluntarily?

It is kind of interesting to think of God having to or choosing to work within the system that humans have created. That goes for language, money, cultural norms, etc. Rules dictated by religions fall within the context of a culture. Almost as if there weren't any universal cosmic truths. Hmm.

It is interesting that the scriptures call this a "temple tax". So it isn't a Roman tax but it isn't designated as a tithing either. I may do some research on this.
Were the Pharisees collecting an additional tax on top of tithing? Or is this the same donation that was given by the widow at the temple treasury box?

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:06 am It is interesting that the scriptures call this a "temple tax". So it isn't a Roman tax but it isn't designated as a tithing either. I may do some research on this.
Were the Pharisees collecting an additional tax on top of tithing? Or is this the same donation that was given by the widow at the temple treasury box?

It would be very interesting to know more about this, Palerider. Please return and report if you find any good information about it.

I agree. It would be interesting to learn about the tax referred to in the New Testament.

This George Carlin clip came to mind. I think it sums up the question of Joseph and money:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtM ... lvbg%3D%3D

Why are ye so blind Brothers and Sisters? God WAS poor, but now he is RICH. Mormon God has $265 billion at his command, if the site I googled is accurate. All he has to do is command Pres. Nelson what he wants done with those mighty bilyuns of dollars.
When Israel was disobedient God blasted them with poverty, but now, verily, the Kingdom of God, yea, even Israel has become righteous enough that God has entrusted them with what is one of the top 25 richest fortunes in the corporate world.
Will the people fall from this lofty position?
There are two school of thought about this:
1. The pride cycle will run true to course and Israel will be brought to repentance through poverty.
2. The great and glorious wealth of the church will never be taken away in this Last and Greatest Dispensation, just as God has promised.

2bizE wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 10:12 am This George Carlin clip came to mind. I think it sums up the question of Joseph and money:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtM ... lvbg%3D%3D

I can honestly say those two minutes of comedy pulled my head out of my own religious orifice enough to make my disaffection possible.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:42 pm Why are ye so blind Brothers and Sisters? God WAS poor, but now he is RICH. Mormon God has $265 billion at his command...

Why is it that in a time when there is no financial barrier to publishing books of world-saving new scripture, our prophets can't seem to come up with anything better than bathroom restrictions to single out and humiliate certain members of their congregations?

Nelson likes to remind us the end is near, but we're supposed to get the sealed portion of the BoM translated before that. Who's going to put the rock in the hat and give us that? Nelson? Oaks? Bednar? More likely Bednar will say, "do you have the faith to not expect prophesy or revelation from a prophet seer and revelator?"

They (LDS leaders) have the ability to do so much good, and they poop it away. As my granddaughter would say, C'mon people!! Do something, even if it's raise wages for Church employees, or hire custodial workers. If they gave homeless people a custodial job, they would be giving them dignity, but nooooooooo..., Church members must be kept humble.
I think Church leaders who tell members when to stand and sit need to be humbled, ah but I do sin in my wish.

"The god I believe in, isn't short of cash, mister"

-Bono

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 7:26 pm If they gave homeless people a custodial job, they would be giving them dignity, but nooooooooo...,

Are you kidding? They refuse to even let them come indoors on sub-zero winter nights to stave off frostbite.

I don't know if any of you attended the big church Christmas concert the year they chose the story of the Little Matchstick Girl for their theme. It was despicable. In the end, the little girl, as in the traditional story, freezes to death because of the lack of compassion of everyone around her. But the LDS church took it a step further. Ultimately, letting her suffer and die was a good thing because it hastened her joyous reunion with her dead mother in the afterlife. Yay.

Google/wikipedia says that the temple tax was a tax paid annually by Jewish men over the age of 20 (Exodus 30:14) to maintain the temple.

The value is a little complicated. At the time of Jesus, the tax was a half shekel of silver, the equivalent of two days wages at the time.

A half shekel of silver (ranging anywhere from 7 - 10 grams from what I've seen) today is worth $7-10. The price of silver and labor obviously fluctuates. I've seen google search and AI estimates that the tax is roughly equivalent to $50-75 today.

Priests in the tribe of Levi were generally exempt from the tax.

One thing I didn't readily find is how a person proved that they had paid the tax that year. I suppose it was on the honor system or they had some method of bookkeeping.

It's my understanding that this was a tax imposed on men over 20 .What the widow paid wouldn't be the temple tax, the widow being a woman.

That's cool. Women didn't have to pay the temple tax. Was it because they couldn't go?
Nibbler, you rock!

If you watch this from start to finish it's not only informative but interesting on this subject. Not very long.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKevpBjecDE

Great post Pale! One reason the Bible is so fascinating is because of the historical context we have for it. I'm thinking if there was a comparable historical context for the Book of Mormon, being a Book of Mormon scholar would be so much more fun and rewarding. I wonder, does the BYU religion department see the difference?
Anyway, thanks for posting.