NOM

Do any of you have teenagers cosplaying pioneers this year on treks or at BYU?

No trek-aged kids in the Linked home yet, but it's coming too soon. Any tips for keeping kids safe and less indoctrinated by it all?

Linked wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:12 pm No trek-aged kids in the Linked home yet, but it's coming too soon. Any tips for keeping kids safe and less indoctrinated by it all?

Keep them home? My kids hated it. It was wall-to-wall indoctrination. But sooooo authentic; our ward was catered by Hires burger restaurant. Actually, my oldest son was very disappointed because they had hyped it so much as a soul-wrenching, lifechanging sacrifice, but it turned out to be an easy stroll, according to him, and really more of an in-your-face neverending Sunday School lesson.

ETA: There's a great Mormonish podcast about the true and tragic story of the handcart pioneers. Like so many things, the story they teach out kids is a bundle of lies and late re-rememberings.
https://www.mormonishpodcast.org/episod ... -lives-on

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:24 am

Linked wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:12 pm No trek-aged kids in the Linked home yet, but it's coming too soon. Any tips for keeping kids safe and less indoctrinated by it all?

Keep them home? My kids hated it. It was wall-to-wall indoctrination. But sooooo authentic; our ward was catered by Hires burger restaurant. Actually, my oldest son was very disappointed because they had hyped it so much as a soul-wrenching, lifechanging sacrifice, but it turned out to be an easy stroll, according to him, and really more of an in-your-face neverending Sunday School lesson.

ETA: There's a great Mormonish podcast about the true and tragic story of the handcart pioneers. Like so many things, the story they teach out kids is a bundle of lies and late re-rememberings.
https://www.mormonishpodcast.org/episod ... -lives-on

LOL ! I shouldn't laugh, but that's hilarious. A catered trek. Hilarious

I'm glad that your son thought it was a stroll; but it's been such a hot summer in the west, that I would be concerned about keeping everyone hydrated. And yes, I am sure that was a problem for the pioneers also.

My FIL/MIL served a three summer mission tour in the Deseret Land & Livestock Mission.

They bought an RV trailer and each summer pulled it up to Wyoming and lived in it. Their mission was to lead and support the weekly youth treks.

They drove golf cart/side by side vehicles around. Cleaning porta potty’s. Helping provide drinking water. Acting as medical supervisors. And cheering the women pull their handcarts up some big ass bill while the men and boys sat on the sidelines cheering them on. I’m starting to cry just thinking about that spiritual moment.

We went and visited them one summer. The church has a large facility built where they can do laundry, have group meals cooked in a nice kitchen. And of course a garage to service the vehicles. The funnest part was touring the land and learning how the church manages the large cattle stock that grazes during the summer months. They hired a bunch of biologists to study the plant growth and soil damage caused by the large herds. Nobody knew who the cattle went to for slaughter.

The in laws loved it. They came back exhausted and aged 5 years after each summer. After the third summer their mission ended, they sold the trailer, and have a full size wagon wheel monument set up in their backyard to memorialize their experience.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:05 am My FIL/MIL served a three summer mission tour in the Deseret Land & Livestock Mission.

They bought an RV trailer and each summer pulled it up to Wyoming and lived in it. Their mission was to lead and support the weekly youth treks.

They drove golf cart/side by side vehicles around. Cleaning porta potty’s. Helping provide drinking water. Acting as medical supervisors. And cheering the women pull their handcarts up some big ass bill while the men and boys sat on the sidelines cheering them on. I’m starting to cry just thinking about that spiritual moment.

We went and visited them one summer. The church has a large facility built where they can do laundry, have group meals cooked in a nice kitchen. And of course a garage to service the vehicles. The funnest part was touring the land and learning how the church manages the large cattle stock that grazes during the summer months. They hired a bunch of biologists to study the plant growth and soil damage caused by the large herds. Nobody knew who the cattle went to for slaughter.

The in laws loved it. They came back exhausted and aged 5 years after each summer. After the third summer their mission ended, they sold the trailer, and have a full size wagon wheel monument set up in their backyard to memorialize their experience.

I have a sister in law (technically the remarried widow of my husband’s brother) has served two of these three year missions and are currently in Az for a nontrek senior mission. Bet they know your in-laws. Any way on their P day they visited us at Bear Lake a few times. The first time they asked me if I was related to the guy whose journal they used because of my maiden name. Yup, ggggrandfather. He was not with Martin or Willie, but in the company just before them, who also got snowed in and had to be rescued. They had more deaths than any handcart company before them, actually more deaths than all the handcarts before them added together. They were one week ahead of Willie and two weeks ahead of Martin. They use his journal to describe how the company was divided into groups with 15 people per cart and tent, and all the food for 15 people, all the bedding, large tent for 15 people, those unable to walk, and cooking supplies all had to be in that tiny handcart. His wife was the company’s midwife/nurse. One of his teenaged sons also pulled a handcart of 15, with his baby sister riding. So families were not kept together in the same tent or handcart. His journal is also used for how many miles covered, and a lot of the information of how the companies were structured. There is a story about my gggggrandmother who was medical officer that they don’t teach in trek was that the women’s long skirts were picking up alkali from the desert soil, and once the skirt got all crusted with the mineral, it rubbed the women’s ankles raw, then their ankles would get infected and pretty soon, they were unable to walk. So, as the medical officer in the company she told the male leaders to order the women to shorten their skirts to knee length. The brethren were scandalized, but did as their medical officer told them. Only time the brethren had to order the women to be “immodest” according to my father.

I have had to argue with idiots who insist there were only the two companies who ran into snow and ran out of food and needed to be rescued because when the the church teaches about the handcart companies they only talk about the two. So, they use his journal but pretend he was really in Martin or Willie? No, it was just that he kept the best journal about how the handcart companies functioned.

Then they brag like no one from these companies ever left the church. Liars. And abuse was passed down from one generation to the next in some of the families who stayed in the church. Many of the people in those companies felt that it was stupid to go so late, and just “trust God” not to let it snow on them. So, they felt very betrayed by the decision to leave so late in the summer, and were justifiably angry and questioning this “prophecy” that they would make it before winter set in. So, yeah, they may not have left Utah as in left the church, but they stopped trusting the church leaders and were only nominally in and passed down the anger and bitterness to their children and it was in the stuff I heard from my father down a few generations.

My kids who participated in the treks didn't really enjoy it and felt the adults involved tried to create ersatz spiritual experiences. One daughter said she was happy the heavy flour sack baby "died" so they didn't have to carry it anymore. Her practicality outweighed her ability to pretend, I suppose. At least in that moment. Another daughter said the handcart broke and narrowly missed her foot when it landed. Blessing? Ok. And I get having youth do hard things to learn and grow, and team sports do that a lot. What I never liked, even when I was a mostly TBM is the tendency to create or force "spiritual" experiences, which were really just emotional experiences in a setting with other kids your age. EFY did this constantly. Our girls were often emotional wrecks after a week of EFY induced and indoctrinated "spiritual" experiences.

Wonderment wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:59 pm I'm glad that your son thought it was a stroll; but it's been such a hot summer in the west, that I would be concerned about keeping everyone hydrated. And yes, I am sure that was a problem for the pioneers also.

Good point. They had to call an ambulance for two kids who ended up on saline IVs. I'm sure it wasn't a stroll, but they had gotten my kid so revved up with the sacrifice stories that he was prepared for a life-changing ordeal, rather than an inconvenient object lesson.

I'm sure I've told this story here before, but the Sunday after the trek they had several kids speak in sacrament meeting. One of them, who was on my son's cart, talked about letting go of the cart on the big hill and feeling angels pulling it. My son, sitting next to me said, "that was me!. I was the only one who kept pulling all the way up."

Fascinating insights, Alas!

alas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 1:35 pm So, as the medical officer in the company she told the male leaders to order the women to shorten their skirts to knee length. The brethren were scandalized, but did as their medical officer told them. Only time the brethren had to order the women to be “immodest” according to my father.

porn ankles!

alas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 1:35 pm Then they brag like no one from these companies ever left the church. Liars.

One estimate I read was that about half of the handcart pioneers left. Most didn't do it right away. They were in too much debt to the church and it took them years to work off their indentured servitude before they were able to get the hell out of Dodge.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:24 am Fascinating insights, Alas!

alas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 1:35 pm So, as the medical officer in the company she told the male leaders to order the women to shorten their skirts to knee length. The brethren were scandalized, but did as their medical officer told them. Only time the brethren had to order the women to be “immodest” according to my father.

porn ankles!

alas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 1:35 pm Then they brag like no one from these companies ever left the church. Liars.

One estimate I read was that about half of the handcart pioneers left. Most didn't do it right away. They were in too much debt to the church and it took them years to work off their indentured servitude before they were able to get the hell out of Dodge.

I think it sometimes took another generation to leave the church. The actual ones who made huge sacrifices to first get to America, and then cross the plains, were kind of in too deep. The sunk cost fallacy kept them in. But their children could look at it logically and see the mistake of leaving so late. My father’s great grandfather was 15, so old enough to understand, but it wasn’t *him* who sold everything they owned, and spent every penny getting to Utah. So, he was not subject to sunk cost. And he probably converted because his parents did, but would not have had the “convert zeal” his parents did. And they were not poor, but merchant class, so selling everything they owned was a sacrifice. So, this kid was put pulling a handcart with his baby sister, so, he was totally responsible for an infant, and had 13 strangers in his company. He was the strongest man in his group, at 15. So his group was women, kids, and older men. Imagine the responsibility dumped on a 15 year old to be in charge of his group. So, they left a pretty cushy life, then had the hardship of crossing the Atlantic, getting to the cart launch point, then rushing to try to make Utah before bad weather, with handcarts that were thrown together with wood that hadn’t even had time to dry all the way, so it warped, cracked, and broke. Then finally they get to Utah, barely get settled in one town, and then ordered to go colonize the desert. So, from pretty well off, to dirt poor. I guess it is no wonder that he would end up bitter. I think he lost all his toes to frostbite. And then to have to pretend that these men with this stupid “handcart” idea were inspired to have people do it that way because Brigham was such a wonderful prophet.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:16 am I'm sure I've told this story here before, but the Sunday after the trek they had several kids speak in sacrament meeting. One of them, who was on my son's cart, talked about letting go of the cart on the big hill and feeling angels pulling it. My son, sitting next to me said, "that was me!. I was the only one who kept pulling all the way up."

That is too funny!

No trek for DD. I doubt she even knows that trek is. I'll have to explain it to her and see how she reacts.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:24 am ...One estimate I read was that about half of the handcart pioneers left. ...

Le Sigh.

If only my "handcart pioneer" ancestors had left...

Yikes.

alas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 1:32 pm So his group was women, kids, and older men.

That Mormon-ish podcast had some interesting statistics. Brigham Young's wagon train was all men except for two wives he brought along at the last minute. When the handcarts companies arrived they were about 3/4 women. I had never heard this and I haven't taken the time to fact check it. Also, there were men waiting in Salt Lake to marry some of the women who were already married to handcart pioneers.

MoPag wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:29 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:16 am I'm sure I've told this story here before, but the Sunday after the trek they had several kids speak in sacrament meeting. One of them, who was on my son's cart, talked about letting go of the cart on the big hill and feeling angels pulling it. My son, sitting next to me said, "that was me!. I was the only one who kept pulling all the way up."

That is too funny!

No trek for DD. I doubt she even knows that trek is. I'll have to explain it to her and see how she reacts.

So, I explained trek to DD. She looked shocked and said, "what the f-ck!"
Because really... what the f-ck!