Pope, Gay blessing, Conversion opportunity

[moksha]

Ever since the Pope decided that priests can bless same-sex couples, so long as the blessing does not resemble a marriage ceremony; the blessing is not to be treated as a sacrament, as marriage is between men and women in the church.

This has been disconcerting to many Priests and even parishioners who hold to the old ways of being. Thus this is one of those golden missionary opportunities for the LDS to proselytize those Catholics who want to get their hate on. None of that same-sex stuff for them. If they wish to interact with the LGBTQ community, it can be through the time-honored means of torches and pitchforks rather than "blessings".

A loss for Catholics can be a win for the Saints.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Ever since the Pope decided that priests can bless same-sex couples, so long as the blessing does not resemble a marriage ceremony; the blessing is not to be treated as a sacrament, as marriage is between men and women in the church.

This has been disconcerting to many Priests and even parishioners who hold to the old ways of being. Thus this is one of those golden missionary opportunities for the LDS to proselytize those Catholics who want to get their hate on. None of that same-sex stuff for them. If they wish to interact with the LGBTQ community, it can be through the time-honored means of torches and pitchforks rather than "blessings".

A loss for Catholics can be a win for the Saints.

So, you are saying that the Saints hate the gays? How many Saints hate gays and how many do not? Do you know? If my mom is a Saint does she hate my gay brother? What about folks here who have a gay child and an active spouse? Does that Saint hate their child? This is really important to clarify, moksha. When you say the Saints are spreading hate and using pitchforks, are you including the Saints that some people on this forum live with and love?

What kind of torches will the Saints use for this activity that you are saying they will have?

[moksha]

Mayan, would you quit following me around the forum being an annoyance?

[Mayan_Elephant]

Mayan, would you quit following me around the forum being an annoyance?

Yes. I will answer your questions. I will not respond to your posts when they do not include generalized statements about people. It is not funny and it is not kind when you accuse people of spreading hatred if all of those people are not actually doing that. If you have examples of hateful acts, lets discuss that. Bigoted statements deserve questions and I will not stop asking you to clarify or justify your unkind comments.

Individuals can disagree. Groups and institutions can disagree. Ideologies can differ. All of that can be held in a conversation without a bigoted comment about groups of people you do not like.

[moksha]

Mayan, it is one thing for you to be Trump's major cheerleader, it is another for you to be the avowed critic of other posters. I find it most annoying and I wish that the moderators could establish some boundaries.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Mayan, it is one thing for you to be Trump's major cheerleader, it is another for you to be the avowed critic of other posters. I find it most annoying and I wish that the moderators could establish some boundaries.

moksha, when you lie to me, I may not know. When you lie about me, I may not know. When you lie to me about me, I know. Stop lying, silly penguin.

The boundary could be established by a moderator, needlessly. Or, you could politely refrain from insulting posters specifically and large swaths of people bigotedly. Try it out and see how responses will be more inviting. Give it a go, buddy.

[moksha]

Mayan, it is one thing for you to be Trump's major cheerleader, it is another for you to be the avowed critic of other posters. I find it most annoying and I wish that the moderators could establish some boundaries.

moksha, when you lie to me, I may not know. When you lie about me, I may not know. When you lie to me about me, I know. Stop lying, silly penguin.

The boundary could be established by a moderator, needlessly. Or, you could politely refrain from insulting posters specifically and large swaths of people bigotedly. Try it out and see how responses will be more inviting. Give it a go, buddy.

Mayan, all the many characters and sock puppets you created at Mormon Discussions were universally reviled. You've got something going on that makes people throw barbs. You recognized me from that board, even though my involvement with you was minimal. Now you are doing something I have never seen on NOM before, you are harassing another poster.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Mayan, it is one thing for you to be Trump's major cheerleader, it is another for you to be the avowed critic of other posters. I find it most annoying and I wish that the moderators could establish some boundaries.

moksha, when you lie to me, I may not know. When you lie about me, I may not know. When you lie to me about me, I know. Stop lying, silly penguin.

The boundary could be established by a moderator, needlessly. Or, you could politely refrain from insulting posters specifically and large swaths of people bigotedly. Try it out and see how responses will be more inviting. Give it a go, buddy.

Mayan, all the many characters and sock puppets you created at Mormon Discussions were universally reviled. You've got something going on that makes people throw barbs. You recognized me from that board, even though my involvement with you was minimal. Now you are doing something I have never seen on NOM before, you are harassing another poster.

Just the opposite, my little penguin buddy. You are bringing your baggage over here and saying things about me that are not true. You have been asked many times to not do that. I am not universally reviled and have many friends over there. I just had dinner with Shades, for hellsakes.

Play the ball.

I have an issue when you call the "Saints" champions or proselytes of hatred with their torches and pitchforks. I have challenged the specific content of your posts, and you respond with lies and accusations rather than addressing the questions or topic.

This is the New Order Mormon forum. Many people read this who choose to stay involved in the church or have a mixed-faith family. If you wish to accuse these readers' loved ones of being proponents of hatred - stand up and own it and quit crying and lying.

[moksha]

I have challenged the specific content of your posts, and you respond with lies and accusations rather than addressing the questions or topic.

I don't think that is what NOM is about. I wish I could get a ruling from the moderators. You are now representing yourself as both Mormon-friendly and a teller of truth. Corsair is out of here and I read how Red Ryder is having second thoughts. Not sure where Hagoth is. Could you ask Shades to take you back? I bet Res Ipsa, Marcus, and Doc Cam have missed you.

[Mayan_Elephant]

I have challenged the specific content of your posts, and you respond with lies and accusations rather than addressing the questions or topic.

I don't think that is what NOM is about. I wish I could get a ruling from the moderators. You are now representing yourself as both Mormon-friendly and a teller of truth. Corsair is out of here and I read how Red Ryder is having second thoughts. Not sure where Hagoth is. Could you ask Shades to take you back? I bet Res Ipsa, Marcus, and Doc Cam have missed you.

And again, here you are slinging mud from another forum which you have been asked repeatedly to not do.

If NOM is not about coexisting with members of the Mormon church, then what is it about?

Make no mistake here, I am VERY friendly to Mormons. I have many family members in that church. I disagree with the organization and many of the beliefs - but I am friendly to Mormons and I expect this forum to be friendly to people who choose to stay in, choose to get out, or choose to walk some lines along the way.

If people choose to not engage in dialogue here because we question judgments of Mormons accusing them of being hate-mongering, well, so be it, I guess. Seems odd. That is like ESPN not allowing people to be friendly Yankees fans.

Do you think you can address the topic of this thread you started?

[Angel]

Several of the kids who were abused by Mormon pedophile in my family are now LGBTQ.

In my experience, yes, those who remain in the church are quite biased.

My lgbtq kiddo went to church one last time with a non-lds friend who accompanied for support.

Only one person talked to them, and that was by mistake - mistook them for someone else.

All those "friends"? Gone.

When my kiddo comes home for visit, their old non-lds has friends come around to say hello, but not the Mormons. Mormons will never face their pedophile leaders, or the lgbtq community they created themselves.

Here's a partial list. Those who stay support the list. How many suicides have happened from this list?

Opposition to Same-Sex Marriage: The Mormon Church has consistently opposed legalizing and recognizing same-sex marriages, advocating for traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

Proclamation on the Family: The church's 1995 Proclamation on the Family reinforces a traditional view of marriage and gender roles, excluding same-sex couples and reinforcing a heteronormative structure.

2015 Policy on Same-Sex Couples: In 2015, the church declared that individuals in same-sex marriages are considered apostates, and their children are restricted from certain church activities unless they disavow same-sex relationships.

Conversion Therapy Support: The church has been associated with supporting conversion therapy, a controversial and widely discredited practice aimed at changing an individual's sexual orientation.

Exclusionary Membership Policies: LGBTQ individuals who openly express same-sex attraction are barred from temple ordinances, and this exclusion can contribute to feelings of discrimination and exclusion.

Lack of LGBTQ Representation: The church's leadership predominantly consists of heterosexual males, and there is a perceived lack of LGBTQ representation in decision-making positions.

Rejection of LGBTQ Affirming Groups: Efforts by LGBTQ-affirming groups within the church have faced resistance, with leaders expressing concern over conflicting views on doctrine and policy.

Enforcement of Gender Norms: The church reinforces strict gender norms, expecting adherence to traditional roles, which can be limiting and oppressive for LGBTQ individuals who may not conform to these expectations.

Limited Acceptance of LGBTQ Identity: While the church acknowledges that experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin, acting on those attractions is considered sinful, creating a difficult environment for LGBTQ members.

Influence on Local Policies: The church's teachings can influence local policies in areas where it has a significant presence, contributing to a broader social environment that may be less accepting of LGBTQ individuals.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Several of the kids who were abused by Mormon pedophile in my family are now LGBTQ.

In my experience, yes, those who remain in the church are quite biased.

My lgbtq kiddo went to church one last time with a non-lds friend who accompanied for support.

Only one person talked to them, and that was by mistake - mistook them for someone else.

All those "friends"? Gone.

When my kiddo comes home for visit, their old non-lds has friends come around to say hello, but not the Mormons. Mormons will never face their pedophile leaders, or the lgbtq community they created themselves.

Here's a partial list. Those who stay support the list. How many suicides have happened from this list?

Opposition to Same-Sex Marriage: The Mormon Church has consistently opposed legalizing and recognizing same-sex marriages, advocating for traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

Proclamation on the Family: The church's 1995 Proclamation on the Family reinforces a traditional view of marriage and gender roles, excluding same-sex couples and reinforcing a heteronormative structure.

2015 Policy on Same-Sex Couples: In 2015, the church declared that individuals in same-sex marriages are considered apostates, and their children are restricted from certain church activities unless they disavow same-sex relationships.

Conversion Therapy Support: The church has been associated with supporting conversion therapy, a controversial and widely discredited practice aimed at changing an individual's sexual orientation.

Exclusionary Membership Policies: LGBTQ individuals who openly express same-sex attraction are barred from temple ordinances, and this exclusion can contribute to feelings of discrimination and exclusion.

Lack of LGBTQ Representation: The church's leadership predominantly consists of heterosexual males, and there is a perceived lack of LGBTQ representation in decision-making positions.

Rejection of LGBTQ Affirming Groups: Efforts by LGBTQ-affirming groups within the church have faced resistance, with leaders expressing concern over conflicting views on doctrine and policy.

Enforcement of Gender Norms: The church reinforces strict gender norms, expecting adherence to traditional roles, which can be limiting and oppressive for LGBTQ individuals who may not conform to these expectations.

Limited Acceptance of LGBTQ Identity: While the church acknowledges that experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin, acting on those attractions is considered sinful, creating a difficult environment for LGBTQ members.

Influence on Local Policies: The church's teachings can influence local policies in areas where it has a significant presence, contributing to a broader social environment that may be less accepting of LGBTQ individuals.

Pedophile leaders made the lgbt community? Whaaaaaat?

No doubt there are some issues. I aint a fan of anything on your list. But are you saying without pedophiles there wouldnt be a community?

Pedophiles are violent killers. The end. Capital punishment is a just reward.

I dont think they built anything but trauma.

[Hagoth]

Once again, this cannot be looked at through a black-and-white camera.

Here's my observation from personal experience with LGBTQ friends who grew up in Mormon families. The majority are either disowned or submitted to either a constant stream of harassment, accusation, guilting, and denial, or an endless series of reminders of what a huge embarrassment and disappointment they are to the legitimate members of the family. This is often done in a passive-aggressive "it's because we love you so much" way, but I also know some who have been outright rejected and, for some teens, even put out on the street.

On the other hand, I have seen some LDS parents who are very loving and supporting of their LGBTQ child. But to do so, they usually have to reinvent themselves relative to the church. First the Proclamation comes down from the wall, then they start avoiding or walking out of meetings, finally admit that Dallin Oaks makes their skin crawl... and often just walk away and choose family over church.

It's difficult to serve two masters. Sometimes you have to choose between love and The Proclamation. I applaud those who can find a way to do both.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Once again, this cannot be looked at through a black-and-white camera.

Here's my observation from personal experience with LGBTQ friends who grew up in Mormon families. The majority are either disowned or submitted to either a constant stream of harassment, accusation, guilting, and denial, or an endless series of reminders of what a huge embarrassment and disappointment they are to the legitimate members of the family. This is often done in a passive-aggressive "it's because we love you so much" way, but I also know some who have been outright rejected and, for some teens, even put out on the street.

On the other hand, I have seen some LDS parents who are very loving and supporting of their LGBTQ child. But to do so, they usually have to reinvent themselves relative to the church. First the Proclamation comes down from the wall, then they start avoiding or walking out of meetings, finally admit that Dallin Oaks makes their skin crawl... and often just walk away and choose family over church.

It's difficult to serve two masters. Sometimes you have to choose between love and The Proclamation. I applaud those who can find a way to do both.

This is accurate. My experience is similar to this. Though, it seems there is growing tolerance among the members and less, albeit too much, of the disownment. Any of the mean shit is too much.

[wtfluff]

Here's a partial list. Those who stay support the list. How many suicides have happened from this list?

Opposition to Same-Sex Marriage: The Mormon Church has consistently opposed legalizing and recognizing same-sex marriages, advocating for traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

Proclamation on the Family: The church's 1995 Proclamation on the Family reinforces a traditional view of marriage and gender roles, excluding same-sex couples and reinforcing a heteronormative structure.

2015 Policy on Same-Sex Couples: In 2015, the church declared that individuals in same-sex marriages are considered apostates, and their children are restricted from certain church activities unless they disavow same-sex relationships.

Conversion Therapy Support: The church has been associated with supporting conversion therapy, a controversial and widely discredited practice aimed at changing an individual's sexual orientation.

Exclusionary Membership Policies: LGBTQ individuals who openly express same-sex attraction are barred from temple ordinances, and this exclusion can contribute to feelings of discrimination and exclusion.

Lack of LGBTQ Representation: The church's leadership predominantly consists of heterosexual males, and there is a perceived lack of LGBTQ representation in decision-making positions.

Rejection of LGBTQ Affirming Groups: Efforts by LGBTQ-affirming groups within the church have faced resistance, with leaders expressing concern over conflicting views on doctrine and policy.

Enforcement of Gender Norms: The church reinforces strict gender norms, expecting adherence to traditional roles, which can be limiting and oppressive for LGBTQ individuals who may not conform to these expectations.

Limited Acceptance of LGBTQ Identity: While the church acknowledges that experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin, acting on those attractions is considered sinful, creating a difficult environment for LGBTQ members.

Influence on Local Policies: The church's teachings can influence local policies in areas where it has a significant presence, contributing to a broader social environment that may be less accepting of LGBTQ individuals.

Nice list!

There's a whole bunch of points here that show that MORmON-Corp.is a hate group.

Sorry Hagoth and Elephante, but as someone who is fairly closely acquainted with an LGBTQ kid who died by suicide with too much seeming influence from LDS-Inc. I can't see the black and white.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Here's a partial list. Those who stay support the list. How many suicides have happened from this list?

Opposition to Same-Sex Marriage: The Mormon Church has consistently opposed legalizing and recognizing same-sex marriages, advocating for traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

Proclamation on the Family: The church's 1995 Proclamation on the Family reinforces a traditional view of marriage and gender roles, excluding same-sex couples and reinforcing a heteronormative structure.

2015 Policy on Same-Sex Couples: In 2015, the church declared that individuals in same-sex marriages are considered apostates, and their children are restricted from certain church activities unless they disavow same-sex relationships.

Conversion Therapy Support: The church has been associated with supporting conversion therapy, a controversial and widely discredited practice aimed at changing an individual's sexual orientation.

Exclusionary Membership Policies: LGBTQ individuals who openly express same-sex attraction are barred from temple ordinances, and this exclusion can contribute to feelings of discrimination and exclusion.

Lack of LGBTQ Representation: The church's leadership predominantly consists of heterosexual males, and there is a perceived lack of LGBTQ representation in decision-making positions.

Rejection of LGBTQ Affirming Groups: Efforts by LGBTQ-affirming groups within the church have faced resistance, with leaders expressing concern over conflicting views on doctrine and policy.

Enforcement of Gender Norms: The church reinforces strict gender norms, expecting adherence to traditional roles, which can be limiting and oppressive for LGBTQ individuals who may not conform to these expectations.

Limited Acceptance of LGBTQ Identity: While the church acknowledges that experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin, acting on those attractions is considered sinful, creating a difficult environment for LGBTQ members.

Influence on Local Policies: The church's teachings can influence local policies in areas where it has a significant presence, contributing to a broader social environment that may be less accepting of LGBTQ individuals.

Nice list!

There's a whole bunch of points here that show that MORmON-Corp.is a hate group.

Sorry Hagoth and Elephante, but as someone who is fairly closely acquainted with an LGBTQ kid who died by suicide with too much seeming influence from LDS-Inc. I can't see the black and white.

I think you see it as black and white. Hagoth seems to believe some saints are kind.

I dont think calling all saints hateful is kind nor accurate. I am in the not black/white camp.

Sorry you lost a loved one or friend. That sucks.

[stuck]

Hey Mayan, I don't think Moksha was saying that all saints are anti-lgbt. I think he was just poking fun at the church because of what Angel listed and I would add the musket speech given by Holland. Can't we all just get along? Namaste

[Angel]

Pedophile leaders made the lgbt community? Whaaaaaat?

Correct.

Many kids who are abused grow up not feeling comfortable around the gender who abused them.

[Angel]

Ever since the Pope decided that priests can bless same-sex couples, so long as the blessing does not resemble a marriage ceremony; the blessing is not to be treated as a sacrament, as marriage is between men and women in the church.

This has been disconcerting to many Priests and even parishioners who hold to the old ways of being. Thus this is one of those golden missionary opportunities for the LDS to proselytize those Catholics who want to get their hate on. None of that same-sex stuff for them. If they wish to interact with the LGBTQ community, it can be through the time-honored means of torches and pitchforks rather than "blessings".

A loss for Catholics can be a win for the Saints.

The "The New Apostolic Reformation" (NAR), not Mormonism, is where all the fanatics are headed.. the new prophet and apostles....

Scary as ##***##.

[wtfluff]

I dont think calling all saints hateful is kind nor accurate.

Hateful or not.

Kind or not.

Like angel said: Those who "stay" are in some way complicit in supporting a hateful organization.

Not only bigoted and hateful, they spend millions protecting predators.




And... I don't see anywhere in this post where the penguin typed "all saints." You seem to be putting words into the flightless bird's beak.