NOM

Something that happened a long time ago popped into my head. i want to find out what others experienced.

My mission was a nightmare. I served in South America. I likely was suffering from depression.Suicidal ideation was a phrase that I did not know, but was a daily part of my life at that time. I tried to get help from my MP near the end. All he had was to ask if I masturbated. It was devastating how clueless he was.

When i got home, I had to report to the stake president. Before he released me, he asked if a church court had been held for me while on the mission. I truthfully answered, "no." He told me that was a standard question that he had to ask all returning missionaries.

Is that a question that stake presidents routinely asked? It seems weird looking back, but I never talked about it with anyone. I wonder if my MP told my SP something about how miserable I was.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:43 am Something that happened a long time ago popped into my head. i want to find out what others experienced.

My mission was a nightmare. I served in South America. I likely was suffering from depression.Suicidal ideation was a phrase that I did not know, but was a daily part of my life at that time. I tried to get help from my MP near the end. All he had was to ask if I masturbated. It was devastating how clueless he was.

When i got home, I had to report to the stake president. Before he released me, he asked if a church court had been held for me while on the mission. I truthfully answered, "no." He told me that was a standard question that he had to ask all returning missionaries.

Is that a question that stake presidents routinely asked? It seems weird looking back, but I never talked about it with anyone. I wonder if my MP told my SP something about how miserable I was.

I've been back from the mission for a couple of decades. I was never asked whether a church court was held for me while I was on a mission. The very idea of even asking that question to a returning missionary seems out of place.

Not asked. Returned in 1996 from a state side English speaking mission.

The only think I can think of is he was asking because he liked to see people react oddly?

I returned in 2002. I wasn't asked that at all.

I have never heard of that.

I don't know the procedures for such things but I would have thought that if a missionary had done something that required a "church court" that they would have been sent home for the council to be held in their home stake.

I wasn't asked that in my return interview either. Maybe your SP asked it of everyone so he could call it standard? That is a weird question to ask someone who just spent 2 years giving their all to share the gospel.

I'm sorry your mission was so terrible. Mine was rough too. I sometimes wonder if I have some current issues rooted in mission trauma that I haven't dealt with properly.

What made your mission rough?

I served in Southern California and quickly found a way to balance the stress and monotony of mission life by finding fun things to do while out and about. I quickly learned that service was a way to burn time. Knowing who you could visit anytime and burn an hour listening to their strange stories or weird politics. Or finding the members who let us watch NBA games or Disney movies. I learned that an attitude of ”work hard, play hard” went a long way towards making the mission fun and time go by a bit better.

I also had a decent mission President who seemed to care about our mental health even if he thought obedience was a driving factor. Sigh…

I also realized that the comforts of an American toilet and indoor plumbing along with the convenience of a 7-11 or Circle K was great for a reprieve. Or it could have been the endless beautiful people in colorful board shorts and bikini’s, endless sun, and the smell of a salty ocean air breeze that made the mundane all the more tolerable.

While I didn’t love the mission I surely didn’t hate it either.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:04 pm What made your mission rough?

I had a good dose of scrupulosity and fear of confrontation. Those two qualities along with missionaries who are typically less worried about rules than I was gave me a lot of stress. For example, my trainer was from South America. He had a love of the band KISS. He asked me to translate the lyrics. I was certain that I was damned just for that incident.

As a missionary, I did not get a diet that was very healthy. There was no way to burn stress. My mission was next door to the highest baptizing mission in the world at the time. We were constantly being told that we needed to baptize more. Service was seen as a way to avoid work. It was not an acceptable way to spend our time. There was also a problem that my mission viewed thing like getting to bed on time to be a sign of being less than committed. Of course, you were supposed to get up on time and naps were frowned upon. I was not sleeping enough.

Interviews with my MP always consisted of three questions: are you controlling your thoughts, are you masturbating, is there anything else you want to talk about. If you mentioned anything in response to the third question, the answer was always that you should pray about it as far as I could tell after comparing notes with other missionaries. These were not opportunities to work through difficult thoughts or receive pastoral care.

None of this had to be miserable for me. It was my mental state that caused most of the problems. I was unprepared for the environment I was thrown into. I feel foolish for staying in the church for 20+ years after I got home.

It appears that my SP was just making shiz up when he asked me the question. I think he knew a little about my unhappiness from my MP and decided to make sure that I was still in good standing.

Thanks for the response Blaze!

How have you overcome the scrupulosity since stepping back from the church?

I had an incredible relationship with my MP. Incredible. I travelled all over our mission with him while I was on my mission. After my mission, I stayed at his house, he stayed at mine, we stayed in contact until his death.

We spent many days together even after I left the church. He came to my house after I left the church. I talked to him after he was released from the Stake Presidency and called to be a patriarch and this was LONG after I had bailed. I picked him up when he was still in his white temple clothes after he went to the temple, and we went out to dinner. I drank a beer in front of him and had a cappuccino at Cafe de la Presse after dinner. In fact, there were two other former posters from NOM at that dinner.

When I was still in the church, my MP helped me organize the funding and paperwork to get a new chapel approved and built in New Orleans. That chapel was the only chapel in Orleans Parish to survive Katrina and is still going on St. Charles Avenue in New Orleans.

Was my MP perfect, oh hell no. Did we agree on everything, oh hell no. We didn't agree on everything when I was a missionary we damn sure did not agree on everything after I left.

I had a great experience with my mission president and I am grateful to have known him and his family. I am lucky like that.

I baptized a dude on my mission. He was from the Middle East. He went all in. He went on a mission, and his mission president was a complete piece of shit, to put it mildly. My friend was the AP for almost a year and had little to no respect for his MP. My friend went inactive only days after his mission. Once released, he was out. His mission president, in Bordeaux, was that ding dong Neil Anderson. Neil refused to help or reach out to my friend, despite very direct requests from many people. Anderson was busy, ya know, being an important piece of shit.

Like other institutions, there is a bit of luck in making friends. It really comes down to this, clownasses like Anderson expect us to care about him despite little to no care, from him, for us. Unfortunately, that is the most common outcome in the LDS church and in missions.

Mayan_Elephant wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:15 am I had an incredible relationship with my MP. Incredible. I travelled all over our mission with him while I was on my mission. After my mission, I stayed at his house, he stayed at mine, we stayed in contact until his death.

We spent many days together even after I left the church. He came to my house after I left the church. I talked to him after he was released from the Stake Presidency and called to be a patriarch and this was LONG after I had bailed. I picked him up when he was still in his white temple clothes after he went to the temple, and we went out to dinner. I drank a beer in front of him and had a cappuccino at Cafe de la Presse after dinner. In fact, there were two other former posters from NOM at that dinner.

Amazing. Good for him! And you!

My mission president was a very kind man in person, but also very much a SWK/BKP groupy, so he was VERY concerned with masturbation. He was also a GA sent to whip our mission into shape. Some of you surely remember him: Vaughn J. Featherstone. He also dashed my faith in the Gift on Discernment when he shut down my efforts to tell him about my senior companion's worrisome behavior. He told me, "Elder X is a very good missionary. You listen to him and do everything he tells you to do!" Well, I didn't. Elder X ended up baptizing a bunch of kids behind my back, all without their parents' permission and some younger than 8. But guess what, we still got the coveted award for the most baptisms. A month later the branch president got permission from SLC to remove those kids from the rolls. But man, our mission really turned in good numbers that month.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:36 pm
Some of you surely remember him: Vaughn J. Featherstone.

Oh boy. That guy.

Every missionary has been there on P day when the laundry was done, and there was an odd number of white socks in the laundry.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 am Thanks for the response Blaze!

How have you overcome the scrupulosity since stepping back from the church?

I think it happened the other way around. I got over the scrupulosity with 50 years of exposure therapy and discovered that the church did not really do much for me. It started when I convinced myself that silence in testimony meeting was not God telling me that I had to stand a say something. Then I realized that I did not have to volunteer when no one else did. I started choosing which things were meaningful to me. Then I realized that prophets had nothing to say to me personally. It was obvious that bishops and stake presidents had nothing for me. The church structure did not make sense. I made some good friends who helped me as I stepped away.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:36 pm My mission president was a very kind man in person, but also very much a SWK/BKP groupy, so he was VERY concerned with masturbation. He was also a GA sent to whip our mission into shape. Some of you surely remember him: Vaughn J. Featherstone.

My MP was not a bad person. He just had no clue how to relate to young people going through traumatic experiences.

We had two GA's visit during my mission. Boyd Packer was actually rather nice. He did not dump much guilt on us at all. Carlos Asay was the disciplinarian for us. He was not kind.

Mayan_Elephant wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:15 am Like other institutions, there is a bit of luck in making friends. It really comes down to this, clownasses like Anderson expect us to care about him despite little to no care, from him, for us. Unfortunately, that is the most common outcome in the LDS church and in missions.

I have previously read a couple of stories about Anderson over on reddit from missionaries who served under him. God better have some kind respite for those who had to deal with that !@#$.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:43 am My mission was a nightmare. I served in South America. I likely was suffering from depression. Suicidal ideation was a phrase that I did not know, but was a daily part of my life at that time. I tried to get help from my MP near the end. All he had was to ask if I masturbated. It was devastating how clueless he was.

MPs are not chosen on the basis of how they could help the missionaries, so being clueless is to be expected. Some are solely concerned about the statistics reported back to HQ in order to further their Church career.

blazerb wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:28 pm

Mayan_Elephant wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:15 am Like other institutions, there is a bit of luck in making friends. It really comes down to this, clownasses like Anderson expect us to care about him despite little to no care, from him, for us. Unfortunately, that is the most common outcome in the LDS church and in missions.

I have previously read a couple of stories about Anderson over on reddit from missionaries who served under him. God better have some kind respite for those who had to deal with that !@#$.

There are no kind words to describe Anderson. It is that simple.

I was in Geneva in the office when the Bordeaux mission was created. Cities that were in our mission were moved over to Anderson's mission. My MP offered to go down to those areas and help with the transition for his missionaries that were being moved to Bordeaux. Anderson was a POS to my MP too. He is just a bad damn dude. It really is that simple. A bad damn dude.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:43 am When i got home, I had to report to the stake president. Before he released me, he asked if a church court had been held for me while on the mission. I truthfully answered, "no." He told me that was a standard question that he had to ask all returning missionaries.

May I ask how long ago this was? No problem if you don't want to share publicly.

I would think with modern communications, any major disciplinary action against a missionary would be reported back to their home leadership.

Hey blazerb, that's pretty messed up and makes me sad your mission was a crappy experience overall. I was out there in the UK 83-85 but didn't run into that question upon my return. I'm guessing it was not a standard question for stake presidents (maybe it was just yours), but it may depend on the year.

I have experience how a Stake president can mess around with a member's standing in the church. I had to jump through all kinds of hoops in my second marriage to get a cancellation of sealing and approval to get married in the temple. Then we got denied by our SP to have my adopted step daughter sealed to me. He just blew me off and said that she was already sealed to me because she was sealed to my wife under her covenant. But at the time she was born it was out of wedlock and my wife didn't have her temple recommend, expired from her previous marriage. I know now it was all pretend bs now, but then it was very real and important to my wife and I. What the crap would it have harmed to let us go to the temple and get the sealing done? The damn adoption process was easier than navigating the opinions of these narcissistic church broke old peter priesthood white guys. Anyway, water under the bridge, zero Fs to give now, but it's an example of the phukery that often goes on when someone has pretend authority over someone else's made up eternal reward or damnation. There's' lots of worse stories many here have and could share about church courts, interviews on the sex topics, etc. In fact there's an episode about this on Radio West.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:07 pm The damn adoption process was easier than navigating the opinions of these narcissistic church broke old peter priesthood white guys... but it's an example of the phukery that often goes on when someone has pretend authority over someone else's made up eternal reward or damnation.

About on par with these guys when it comes to genuine power and authority:

Interesting post, this. I've re-read most of your posts again and enjoyed them.

Some of us who went on full-time missions when we were youngsters had a rewarding experience, I know I did. Was it fun? Not at all; but I met some fine people and learned a bit about getting out of myself and my own ego enough to love others who were different from me and had opinions on things completely different than me, but were still good people. That was a good thing and I'm glad I went.

My Stake President that I had while I served as a missionary was a flaming ass**le. Egomaniac and he took me over the hurdles after I'd received my mission call and made me wait to get a temple recommend. Said he'd have to think about me. The funny thing is, I didn't even have to lie about any of the temple recommend questions. I damn near told him to kiss my fanny, but at the time I knew he was just being a jerk and refused to take things coming from him personally. When I got home after the interview with the SP I shared the experience with my non-member dad. His advise to me was to tell the SP to stick it, and not go on a mission. The last conversation before he passed away, that I had with my dad, who I was very close to, went something like this: He paused, a smile slid across his face, and he said, "You know (the Stake Pres). I hate that dirty rotten son of a bitch. Will you tell him that for me?" The reason he smiled before he told me was that he knew of my dislike for the former SP. The SP went on to be a MP, and when he got back he was still an jerk.

But, jerk as he was, he never asked me if I'd been the subject of a church court while serving as a missionary. I've never heard of that until your post blazerb. Strange.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:47 am

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:43 am When i got home, I had to report to the stake president. Before he released me, he asked if a church court had been held for me while on the mission. I truthfully answered, "no." He told me that was a standard question that he had to ask all returning missionaries.

May I ask how long ago this was? No problem if you don't want to share publicly.

I would think with modern communications, any major disciplinary action against a missionary would be reported back to their home leadership.

I got home in 1990. I guess it could be possible to have had a church court without the home stake knowing, but phones were a thing. It was strange.

Gatorbait wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:02 pm Interesting post, this. I've re-read most of your posts again and enjoyed them.

Some of us who went on full-time missions when we were youngsters had a rewarding experience, I know I did. Was it fun? Not at all; but I met some fine people and learned a bit about getting out of myself and my own ego enough to love others who were different from me and had opinions on things completely different than me, but were still good people. That was a good thing and I'm glad I went.

I know this probably seems strange. I'm glad I went on a mission. I still speak Spanish reasonably well. It was good to become acquainted with a different culture. I had some good experiences, but the overall memory is pretty dark. I also know that many people had worse experiences. I knew a guy at BYU who shared in a priesthood lesson that he had been beat up 3 times on his mission, the last time by the AP's. I didn't have to deal with that.