Why are powerful men.......horndogs?

[deacon blues]

Like Boyd Packer, I want to treat this subject with reverence- - but have you ever wondered why rich, powerful men so often seduce multiple women? From John Kennedy to Bill Clinton to Joseph Smith to Brigham Young to Leonardo Di Caprio to Jimmy Swaggert to Martin Luther King, when men get fame, power, or riches they often get multiple partners.
I recognize there are exceptions. And though I may sometimes disagree with myself, at the moment I feel blessed that I have neither much money or power in society, if only because it keeps my life simple. Plus I'm married to a most amazing woman.
I think the cause is more on the men than the women, but I don't think it can be denied that women have something to do with it.
I also think it's interesting that by and large, the GA 15, especially since the 19th century have apparently avoided this proclivity.
And maybe it's too obvious to discuss, but:
So... why are powerful men horndogs?

[wtfluff]

How does narcissism play into this scenario?

Methinks that most of the "men" who gain positions of power related to this post have more narcissistic personalities traits than the average Joe/Josephine and thus are more driven by sex, power and money.



I also think that if you looked at the actual statistics, there are more men in power who are NOT "horndogs" than are. We just don't hear about the "non-horndogs" in power because they are not interesting enough to end up on CNN.

[Red Ryder]

I think it’s a combination of two competing ideas.

First, when someone achieves success (sports, business, etc) they are often surrounded by people constantly telling them how amazing and wonderful they are. That builds the ego up and people are attracted to success, which builds a level of attention that average regular people don’t always have. This creates an abundance of attention and opportunity.

Second, a lot of successful people have narcissistic traits that allow them to climb and step over people in order to be successful. Steve Jobs, Elon, Bill Gates, Oprah, come to mind. This doesn’t always correlate to good old fashion morals when sexual opportunities arise. Meaning, if someone is rich and famous and men and women are throwing themselves at the person, there’s an opportunity for the ego to suggest that they deserve the attention.

Now, toss out the rich and famous part and replace it with attention. Many men and women feel they lack a certain level of attention from their spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, etc. when someone comes along that gives them more attention then they are currently getting, then that’s where things tend to go south. Attention is a powerful drug. Men and women tend to give/take equally so I’m not suggesting women are to blame. Nor am I suggesting men are to blame, but rather individuals are to blame.

It comes down to integrity.

You’re either going to remain faithful or you’re not.

I also don’t believe that humans are wired for long term monogamy. We tend to seek and gravitate to those who give the most attention.

[Red Ryder]

I also think that if you looked at the actual statistics, there are more men in power who are NOT "horndogs" than are. We just don't hear about the "non-horndogs" in power because they are not interesting enough to end up on CNN.

I agree with this.

And to address the Q15 leaders of the church.

How do we know that they aren’t accumulating a harem of relief society sisters willing to sneak into the mothers lounge or kitchens of wards buildings? Or secret rooms in the temple to hook up with the lonely ward widows? Or the lonely spouses of the traveling GA’s?

Perhaps there’s a whole level of geriatric swinging going on that puts the Draper stereotype story to shame?

After all, with frontier sex cult origins and secret temple rituals, anything could be a possibility. That would explain the shit eating grin on Rusty and Rasband’s face!

[Mayan_Elephant]

I think it’s a combination of two competing ideas.

First, when someone achieves success (sports, business, etc) they are often surrounded by people constantly telling them how amazing and wonderful they are. That builds the ego up and people are attracted to success, which builds a level of attention that average regular people don’t always have. This creates an abundance of attention and opportunity.

Second, a lot of successful people have narcissistic traits that allow them to climb and step over people in order to be successful. Steve Jobs, Elon, Bill Gates, Oprah, come to mind. This doesn’t always correlate to good old fashion morals when sexual opportunities arise. Meaning, if someone is rich and famous and men and women are throwing themselves at the person, there’s an opportunity for the ego to suggest that they deserve the attention.

Now, toss out the rich and famous part and replace it with attention. Many men and women feel they lack a certain level of attention from their spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, etc. when someone comes along that gives them more attention then they are currently getting, then that’s where things tend to go south. Attention is a powerful drug. Men and women tend to give/take equally so I’m not suggesting women are to blame. Nor am I suggesting men are to blame, but rather individuals are to blame.

It comes down to integrity.

You’re either going to remain faithful or you’re not.

I also don’t believe that humans are wired for long term monogamy. We tend to seek and gravitate to those who give the most attention.

Leaders who are selfish and shameless can do great things. They can also do damning and awful things. In the extreme, selfish and shameless acts can be aggressive and harmful. When leaders are in control and remain assertive they can still do great things without all the pain and harm.

Being selfish is a good thing. Being shameless is a good thing. Being aggressive is not such a good thing.

[moksha]

People are sexual and women are attracted to famous men. It is important for men to not use predatory tactics like Joesph Smith, Donald Trump, Kevin Spacey, or Harvey Weinstein, nor use drugs like Bill Cosby.

[Mayan_Elephant]

People are sexual and women are attracted to famous men. It is important for men to not use predatory tactics like Joesph Smith, Donald Trump, Kevin Spacey, or Harvey Weinstein, nor use drugs like Bill Cosby.

You need to watch more GoT and SOA and you need to watch less CNN. Fame applies to very few people. But being aggressive applies to many.

[alas]

People are sexual and women are attracted to famous men. It is important for men to not use predatory tactics like Joesph Smith, Donald Trump, Kevin Spacey, or Harvey Weinstein, nor use drugs like Bill Cosby.

You need to watch more GoT and SOA and you need to watch less CNN. Fame applies to very few people. But being aggressive applies to many.

But the question was why are POWERFUL men so often horndogs. And I would modify Moksha’s answer to “Women are often attracted to powerful men.” And then go on from there about the use of predatory tactics.

Fame is one kind of power, so is money, so is whatever the hell Trump has that makes him powerful, because with as many bankruptcies as he has, he isn’t really rich, or not consistently, and he went through wives and women before he was famous, so I am not sure what he has…charisma? (I fail to find him the least bit charismatic) And Joseph Smith had charisma and that makes a person powerful. Knowledge can be power as can authority. There are many different ways one can gain power.

So, I would say, power and narcissism or sociopathic tendencies. I don’t think it is really aggression, because I can think of some powerful horndogs who are not aggressive. But I do think the narcissism or sociopathic tendencies are part of it. Many incest offenders or pedophiles are anything but aggressive, but they are predatory and they have more power than their victims, always.

[moksha]

And I would modify Moksha’s answer to “Women are often attracted to powerful men.” And then go on from there about the use of predatory tactics.

Hmmm, I first wrote powerful and then changed it to famous to accommodate Kevin Spacey and Bill Cosby. Should have put a paragraph break in between and not changed the word.

Not sure to what degree women were attracted to Trump or Weinstein. Hard imagining teens or married women being attracted to Joseph Smith without a full-court press being applied.

[alas]

And I would modify Moksha’s answer to “Women are often attracted to powerful men.” And then go on from there about the use of predatory tactics.

Hmmm, I first wrote powerful and then changed it to famous to accommodate Kevin Spacey and Bill Cosby. Should have put a paragraph break in between and not changed the word.

Not sure to what degree women were attracted to Trump or Weinstein. Hard imagining teens or married women being attracted to Joseph Smith without a full-court press being applied.

There are the men women are attracted to, then there are the predators. Two different categories. But not totally separate categories. I think women were attracted to Joseph Smith, but he was also a predator, same with Trump and Clinton, they each had a willing semivictim. Somewhat willing, but the men took advantage of them. They also had totally willing wives or accomplices in several cases, such as former First Lady Trump and some of the women who helped convince Joseph’s victims. And the one lady friend who recruited young girls for what’s his face. So, some of the victims were not attracted, but some were totally willing.

Less famous cases the women seem very willing to have the affair. Then it shades down to guys like Clinton, who the woman is adult, but there is still a power imbalance. Like the guy who has an affair with the nanny. Then there are those who really are unwilling victims. So, there is a spectrum from totally willing, to children with no choice.

These guys are not all rapists, but they are all jerks.

[Mayan_Elephant]

People are sexual and women are attracted to famous men. It is important for men to not use predatory tactics like Joesph Smith, Donald Trump, Kevin Spacey, or Harvey Weinstein, nor use drugs like Bill Cosby.

You need to watch more GoT and SOA and you need to watch less CNN. Fame applies to very few people. But being aggressive applies to many.

But the question was why are POWERFUL men so often horndogs. And I would modify Moksha’s answer to “Women are often attracted to powerful men.” And then go on from there about the use of predatory tactics.

Fame is one kind of power, so is money, so is whatever the hell Trump has that makes him powerful, because with as many bankruptcies as he has, he isn’t really rich, or not consistently, and he went through wives and women before he was famous, so I am not sure what he has…charisma? (I fail to find him the least bit charismatic) And Joseph Smith had charisma and that makes a person powerful. Knowledge can be power as can authority. There are many different ways one can gain power.

So, I would say, power and narcissism or sociopathic tendencies. I don’t think it is really aggression, because I can think of some powerful horndogs who are not aggressive. But I do think the narcissism or sociopathic tendencies are part of it. Many incest offenders or pedophiles are anything but aggressive, but they are predatory and they have more power than their victims, always.

Incest and pedophilia are acts of violence. Horrific violence. Inexcusable selfish violence. Definitely they are aggressive.

the action or an act of attacking without provocation.

forceful and sometimes overly assertive pursuit of one's aims and interests.

[alas]

You need to watch more GoT and SOA and you need to watch less CNN. Fame applies to very few people. But being aggressive applies to many.

But the question was why are POWERFUL men so often horndogs. And I would modify Moksha’s answer to “Women are often attracted to powerful men.” And then go on from there about the use of predatory tactics.

Fame is one kind of power, so is money, so is whatever the hell Trump has that makes him powerful, because with as many bankruptcies as he has, he isn’t really rich, or not consistently, and he went through wives and women before he was famous, so I am not sure what he has…charisma? (I fail to find him the least bit charismatic) And Joseph Smith had charisma and that makes a person powerful. Knowledge can be power as can authority. There are many different ways one can gain power.

So, I would say, power and narcissism or sociopathic tendencies. I don’t think it is really aggression, because I can think of some powerful horndogs who are not aggressive. But I do think the narcissism or sociopathic tendencies are part of it. Many incest offenders or pedophiles are anything but aggressive, but they are predatory and they have more power than their victims, always.

Incest and pedophilia are acts of violence. Horrific violence. Inexcusable selfish violence. Definitely they are aggressive.

the action or an act of attacking without provocation.

forceful and sometimes overly assertive pursuit of one's aims and interests.

Having worked with, studied and experienced incest, I think I know more about it than you do. It is going to depend on the perp (short for perpetrator for those who work with it.) whether it is what most people would call violent. Normally, no violence in involved. That is not to say it doesn’t destroy the victim. It is worse than murder, partly because it can be done “lovingly”. Sometimes when the victim starts resisting, the perp quietly gives up, other times he gets violent. It depends. My own got violent, but most cases are not violent. The perp thinks he is in a loving partnership with the victim, or “teaching” her. So, he thinks he is doing something loving. Sick, but that is how they think. But he is 100% taking advantage of his position of power. In spite of what the sicko tells himself about his motive, these men feel very powerless and they want to feel power over somebody so they pick a child. So, while it is motivated by power, it is usually not violent in any way. But then, neither is poison considered violent.

Think Mr Rogers quietly going into his daughters bedroom after his wife is asleep and you get a picture of the betrayal of incest. The damage is not violence or fear but is betrayal of trust.

And I remembered two other important forms of power that are used by sexual predators. One is physical strength, as in your standard rapist who physically forces or drugs the victim, and the other is relationship, as in the boy friend who says “if you love me…”and manipulates the girl into sex, and the husband in marital rape. They are both using their relationship to manipulate or take advantage. Actually, that is also the power used by the incest offender or other child molester. Child molesters form a trust relationship with their victim and manipulate them into compliance and remaining silent. I would have told if it had been any one but my daddy, see the relationship is the tool used to gain power and no force is usually necessary, especially at first.

[Mayan_Elephant]

But the question was why are POWERFUL men so often horndogs. And I would modify Moksha’s answer to “Women are often attracted to powerful men.” And then go on from there about the use of predatory tactics.

Fame is one kind of power, so is money, so is whatever the hell Trump has that makes him powerful, because with as many bankruptcies as he has, he isn’t really rich, or not consistently, and he went through wives and women before he was famous, so I am not sure what he has…charisma? (I fail to find him the least bit charismatic) And Joseph Smith had charisma and that makes a person powerful. Knowledge can be power as can authority. There are many different ways one can gain power.

So, I would say, power and narcissism or sociopathic tendencies. I don’t think it is really aggression, because I can think of some powerful horndogs who are not aggressive. But I do think the narcissism or sociopathic tendencies are part of it. Many incest offenders or pedophiles are anything but aggressive, but they are predatory and they have more power than their victims, always.

Incest and pedophilia are acts of violence. Horrific violence. Inexcusable selfish violence. Definitely they are aggressive.

the action or an act of attacking without provocation.

forceful and sometimes overly assertive pursuit of one's aims and interests.

Having worked with, studied and experienced incest, I think I know more about it than you do. It is going to depend on the perp (short for perpetrator for those who work with it.) whether it is what most people would call violent. Normally, no violence in involved. That is not to say it doesn’t destroy the victim. It is worse than murder, partly because it can be done “lovingly”. Sometimes when the victim starts resisting, the perp quietly gives up, other times he gets violent. It depends. My own got violent, but most cases are not violent. The perp thinks he is in a loving partnership with the victim, or “teaching” her. So, he thinks he is doing something loving. Sick, but that is how they think. But he is 100% taking advantage of his position of power. In spite of what the sicko tells himself about his motive, these men feel very powerless and they want to feel power over somebody so they pick a child. So, while it is motivated by power, it is usually not violent in any way. But then, neither is poison considered violent.

Think Mr Rogers quietly going into his daughters bedroom after his wife is asleep and you get a picture of the betrayal of incest. The damage is not violence or fear but is betrayal of trust.

And I remembered two other important forms of power that are used by sexual predators. One is physical strength, as in your standard rapist who physically forces or drugs the victim, and the other is relationship, as in the boy friend who says “if you love me…”and manipulates the girl into sex, and the husband in marital rape. They are both using their relationship to manipulate or take advantage. Actually, that is also the power used by the incest offender or other child molester. Child molesters form a trust relationship with their victim and manipulate them into compliance and remaining silent. I would have told if it had been any one but my daddy, see the relationship is the tool used to gain power and no force is usually necessary, especially at first.

You have my empathy.

You have described violence near perfectly. Violence is not only done in an instant or in a single instance. It is the use of force to abuse, injure, destroy, kill, harm and damage. Prolonged violence is still violence. A thousand micro cuts is still violence. Poison, is a violent death or injury.

Your description and mine can co-exist.

[Cnsl1]

I think this issue may also relate to neurochemistry and hormones. Maybe too much testosterone?

And incest isn't always violent. Case in point, a female cousin asking her barely younger male cousin to touch her. Technically incest, but more exploring sexuality with an available and willing partner.

[alas]

Incest and pedophilia are acts of violence. Horrific violence. Inexcusable selfish violence. Definitely they are aggressive.

Having worked with, studied and experienced incest, I think I know more about it than you do. It is going to depend on the perp (short for perpetrator for those who work with it.) whether it is what most people would call violent. Normally, no violence in involved. That is not to say it doesn’t destroy the victim. It is worse than murder, partly because it can be done “lovingly”. Sometimes when the victim starts resisting, the perp quietly gives up, other times he gets violent. It depends. My own got violent, but most cases are not violent. The perp thinks he is in a loving partnership with the victim, or “teaching” her. So, he thinks he is doing something loving. Sick, but that is how they think. But he is 100% taking advantage of his position of power. In spite of what the sicko tells himself about his motive, these men feel very powerless and they want to feel power over somebody so they pick a child. So, while it is motivated by power, it is usually not violent in any way. But then, neither is poison considered violent.

Think Mr Rogers quietly going into his daughters bedroom after his wife is asleep and you get a picture of the betrayal of incest. The damage is not violence or fear but is betrayal of trust.

And I remembered two other important forms of power that are used by sexual predators. One is physical strength, as in your standard rapist who physically forces or drugs the victim, and the other is relationship, as in the boy friend who says “if you love me…”and manipulates the girl into sex, and the husband in marital rape. They are both using their relationship to manipulate or take advantage. Actually, that is also the power used by the incest offender or other child molester. Child molesters form a trust relationship with their victim and manipulate them into compliance and remaining silent. I would have told if it had been any one but my daddy, see the relationship is the tool used to gain power and no force is usually necessary, especially at first.

You have my empathy.

You have described violence near perfectly. Violence is not only done in an instant or in a single instance. It is the use of force to abuse, injure, destroy, kill, harm and damage. Prolonged violence is still violence. A thousand micro cuts is still violence. Poison, is a violent death or injury.

Your description and mine can co-exist.

I guess I am using “violence” as different than just harmful or destructive, or maybe it is the difference between emotional violence and physical violence. I’ll clarify by stating “physical violence.” Then we both know what we are talking about.

And amount of harm is not really related to whether or not there was physical violence, at least for incest. In fact for me, the fact that it turned violent clarified that it was no way in hell something that I was choosing. So, then when we got the chewed gum or licked cupcake or mangled wedding cake lessons in YW, I could listen and hear the violence in chewed gum or mangled wedding cake and know the lesson was nuts because that cake didn’t have agency over getting mangled. It was clearly a sin against the cake. So, zero guilt on the part of the cake. The cake has nothing to be ashamed of, nay the person who destroyed the cake. So, it was kind of odd, that the violence let me know that it was not my fault, and then when my bishops suggested I had something to repent of, I pretty much knew they were wrong, but it still hurt that they automatically blame the female, no matter her age or willingness.

And with as many other incest victims as I have talked to, others have had the same experience, that getting the crap knocked out of us for saying “no” to our abuser absolved us of the guilt that is so common and let us be free to hate our abuser. It destroyed whatever was left of the relationship and removed his emotional power over us.

Now, adult rape victims, stranger or distant acquaintance, were more harmed when there was violence more than just the force necessary to get submission. My clients at the rape center who were sent to the hospital with injuries had the additional trauma of a human purposely injuring them for no reason other than he could. It compounded their trauma rather than simplifying it.

I guess it did leave us with the additional trauma that our trusted relative would beat us, but a beating is not near as bad as rape.

[Angel]

I'm not male so could only speculate.

Why do some women get trapped in stuff like this? I've seen
- women who were abused from birth, from before they could talk, raised in family where it was taught that it was normal and fine with purity culture that didn't talk about it at all so they didn't know any better until they were much older. My MIL - raised with it - still doesn't think badly of her dad, only thinks badly of her mother (who locked her out of house to separate her from her dad). My MIL therefore did not discipline her son, and still supports her son while he is in prison - thinks it is unfair that he should be there - and doesn't talk to or acknowledge her own granddaughters who were hurt.

His wife - was abused as child, again purity culture kept it hush-hush so only message was from authority figure dad that it was 'ok'. She then allowed her husband to abuse their children - it was what she knew from birth.

For some women, marriage isn't about love, it's about power - they marry for $$, marry for status. Jane Austin, Pride and Prejudice. I suppose a man with a wife who only values $$ would not be as attached... if you had $$, unless your spouse did too - it might be difficult to think they married for love and not just $$.

It is so important for women to have equal income as their husband I think, to not be dependent. Equally yoked, both taking equal care of kids, both working.... consider - mom at home all day (Wants to get out at night), dad at work all day (wants to stay home) - end up living different parallel lives from one another vs..... mom and dad both at work all day (kid gets to have friends at daycare), mom and dad both talk about work, both appreciate being home together after work - similar experiences....

mom at home and dad off to work - I just don't think this is the best way to find deep connection. Equally yoked seems to work best.