NOM

Over the weekend I found myself sitting around a campfire with another exmo dude my age and a 23-year old woman from a Catholic background. The topic of the Book of Mormon and archaeology came up. She asked me to fill her in on the narrative of the BoM.

I decided to tell her the story chronologically, starting with the Jaredites. I had barely gotten to the part about the Brother of Jared and the Tower of Babel before she started laughing hysterically. By the time I told her about the wooden submarines lighted with glowing rocks and stuffed with people, livestock, bees, elephants, and barrels of fish she had fallen over backwards off her camp chair, streaming tears and howling with laughter. By the time I described the holes and stoppers in the ceilings and floors of the barges she was gasping for breath, and the only words she could get out, over and over again, were, "and you guys BELIEVED this?!"

Yes. Yes we did.

"Tight like unto a dish"

Likely my first shelf item - ~30 or so years before I had any idea that type of "shelf" existed.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:19 am "Tight like unto a dish"

Likely my first shelf item - ~30 or so years before I had any idea that type of "shelf" existed.

I want to hide in the cavity of a rock.

I really wish it was possible to be accepted within religious communities without joining the literalist crowd.

Symbolism is so much better than literalism.

Aesop's fables aren't literal. Real morals, great koan - riddles, paradoxes, provoke free thought with no single interpretation - with as many interpretations as there are humans.

Finger pointing to the moon - don't analyze the finger, look to the moon.

Unravel greater truths. Pointless to require literslism in the parables and symbols and stories/yarns/lies we create to induce thought.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:26 am ......... the only words she could get out, over and over again, were, "and you guys BELIEVED this?!"

Yes. Yes we did.

Just goes to show what can happen when kids are made subject to "the (incorrect) traditions of their fathers...."
"Didn't any of you guys think to fact check this stuff?????"

Hagoth:

Since the recipient of your "teachings" has a Catholic background, did you ask her about the talking snakes and talking donkeys in "her" holy book?

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:04 pm Hagoth:

Since the recipient of your "teachings" has a Catholic background, did you ask her about the talking snakes and talking donkeys in "her" holy book?

Exactly this Fluff!

I would love to have asked her about all those bible stories and how she sifts out historical facts from fables. Have her imagine if she was brand new to the bible and have someone try to walk her through the garden story.

If a TBM was telling the story they would bear their testimonies at the mention of each extraterrestrial that is all so true.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:04 pm Hagoth:

Since the recipient of your "teachings" has a Catholic background, did you ask her about the talking snakes and talking donkeys in "her" holy book?

Yes, she doesn't believe any of that either. I only mentioned that to explain how she grew up in Utah without knowing anything about the BoM.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:54 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:04 pm Hagoth:

Since the recipient of your "teachings" has a Catholic background, did you ask her about the talking snakes and talking donkeys in "her" holy book?

Yes, she doesn't believe any of that either.

...

(Her)

Childhood indoctrination is a powerful drug. I guess Catholics are not as good as it as other "Religions".

Angel wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:29 pm I really wish it was possible to be accepted within religious communities without joining the literalist crowd.

Symbolism is so much better than literalism.

Aesop's fables aren't literal. Real morals, great koan - riddles, paradoxes, provoke free thought with no single interpretation - with as many interpretations as there are humans.

Finger pointing to the moon - don't analyze the finger, look to the moon.

Unravel greater truths. Pointless to require literslism in the parables and symbols and stories/yarns/lies we create to induce thought.

I agree with this, and I think Smith shot himself in the foot by including so much explanation and detail that it almost precludes symbolic belief. For the Jaredite story in particular he goes so far out of the the way to explain even the very (incorrect) physics of the situation that, as Hagoth's story demonstrates, it becomes absurdly comedic. Smith could have just said they crossed the ocean in seaworthy vessels under the protecting hand of God or whatever, but no, he goes into the manufacturing details of the windows, the wood, the stoppers, the light source. It's ridiculous.

sparky wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:48 am

Angel wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:29 pm I really wish it was possible to be accepted within religious communities without joining the literalist crowd.

Symbolism is so much better than literalism.

Aesop's fables aren't literal. Real morals, great koan - riddles, paradoxes, provoke free thought with no single interpretation - with as many interpretations as there are humans.

Finger pointing to the moon - don't analyze the finger, look to the moon.

Unravel greater truths. Pointless to require literslism in the parables and symbols and stories/yarns/lies we create to induce thought.

I agree with this, and I think Smith shot himself in the foot by including so much explanation and detail that it almost precludes symbolic belief. For the Jaredite story in particular he goes so far out of the the way to explain even the very (incorrect) physics of the situation that, as Hagoth's story demonstrates, it becomes absurdly comedic. Smith could have just said they crossed the ocean in seaworthy vessels under the protecting hand of God or whatever, but no, he goes into the manufacturing details of the windows, the wood, the stoppers, the light source. It's ridiculous.

My favorite scriptures are the Tao Te Ching. First line "The tao that can be told is not the eternal tao". Pure gold.

Angel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:58 am My favorite scriptures are the Tao Te Ching. First line "The tao that can be told is not the eternal tao". Pure gold.

Likewise!

blazerb wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:35 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:19 am "Tight like unto a dish"

Likely my first shelf item - ~30 or so years before I had any idea that type of "shelf" existed.

I want to hide in the cavity of a rock.

Right tho?!?

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:43 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:26 am ......... the only words she could get out, over and over again, were, "and you guys BELIEVED this?!"

Yes. Yes we did.

Just goes to show what can happen when kids are made subject to "the (incorrect) traditions of their fathers...."
"Didn't any of you guys think to fact check this stuff?????"

Yes, by golly, many of us did indeed believe this. Never understood it, but since we received it on our mother's knee, so to speak, we did believe, at least I did. It was a bitter pill the day I had to retract, at least in my own mind, that the BOM is not true. It's taken years to shake off the residue left behind from it. Seems it will take many more years. It is difficult not to be cynical when someone goes off on how the BOM has impacted their life for the better. Maybe it has. Does not mean it is true. Still and all, there it is.