NOM

Kimo Esplin. He was called to sit up on the stand in afternoon conference. He's was the thoughtful bishop, and later stake president, who gave me temple recommends when I couldn't answer the questions correctly, and taught me how to internally nuance the questions. Great guy. I hope he makes it to the top intact, rather than beaten down and remade in their image. He has been fast-tracked to the top so fast it would make your head spin: bishop > stake president > mission president > 12th quorum > 1st quorum in less time than others spend in a stake president calling.

We have lunch from time to time. I wonder if those days are over. When I heard the news I texted him "condolences."

Does he get paid at that level?

Fingers crossed the next generation will be coming in with a whole different perspective than the current leadership

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:29 pm Does he get paid at that level?

I'm sure he does but I don't know if he'd be allowed talk about that. I've been meaning to go to lunch with him. I wonder if he'll be too busy/important now.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:56 pm ... When I heard the news I texted him "condolences."

How as this teaching received?

wtfluff wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:26 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:56 pm ... When I heard the news I texted him "condolences."

How as this teaching received?

With appreciation and a lunch invitation before they ship him off to "the far corner of the world."

We have had good discussions before about the POX and Book of Abraham problems. I need to pick a good topic while I can. The SEC? How the church destroys families, rather than making them eternal? His Second Anointing? I really want to pick up a conversation we started about spirituality (sorry Fluff), how the church doesn't own it, but manipulates members to believe it comes from obedience to the church. I also would really like to talk to him about, you guessed it, psychedelics, since I actually got him to read Michael Pollan's book and he encouraged me to pursue certification as a therapist in that field.

Does your friend have a white ceramic bowl and pitcher on display in their home?

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:44 am Does your friend have a white ceramic bowl and pitcher on display in their home?

I haven't been inside his house since I learned about the sacred artifacts. He doesn't seem like the type to put them on display anyway.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:15 am

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:44 am Does your friend have a white ceramic bowl and pitcher on display in their home?

I haven't been inside his house since I learned about the sacred artifacts. He doesn't seem like the type to put them on display anyway.

The ones I have seen (in use at the time) were a nice quality stainless steel. Totally weird experience.

Our neighbor just came over and told us that her son has been exalted into the 12th quorum and gets to be in the presence of apostles and everything. She told us it is a very difficult and important calling because the church is growing so fast. My tongue is still sore from biting so hard.

She did explain something that helped me make sense of how the quorums work. Quorums 1 & 2 are General Authorities who oversee large areas. The other ten are local regional reps. Her son oversees about 20 stakes here in Utah. The reason my friend jumped from the 12th quorum all the way to the 2nd is because quorums 3 through 12 are all on the same level. Their numbers represent geographic regions, rather than hierarchical order, so the next promotion from any of them would be to the 2nd quorum.

So 2 levels above a Stake President?

Is this the hierarchy (no mission stuff)?

Deacons President
Teachers President
Priest Quorum 1st Councilor (Bishop is President)
EQ President
Bishop
Stake President
Quorum of Seventy 3-12
Quorum of Seventy 1-2
Quorum of12 apostles
First Presidency
Prophet

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:56 pm Kimo Esplin. He was called to sit up on the stand in afternoon conference. He's was the thoughtful bishop, and later stake president, who gave me temple recommends when I couldn't answer the questions correctly, and taught me how to internally nuance the questions. Great guy. I hope he makes it to the top intact, rather than beaten down and remade in their image. He has been fast-tracked to the top so fast it would make your head spin: bishop > stake president > mission president > 12th quorum > 1st quorum in less time than others spend in a stake president calling.

We have lunch from time to time. I wonder if those days are over. When I heard the news I texted him "condolences."

That's amazing. I wonder what it means in terms of theology. I used to think that Uchtdorf was "the token liberal." Maybe now, they've decided to have two token liberals, so that less active members can relate to a G.A. who seems more relevant. Please keep us posted as to what happens. Hope you will be able to meet up with him and continue to have conversations. -- Wndr.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:44 pm So 2 levels above a Stake President?

Is this the hierarchy (no mission stuff)?

Deacons President
Teachers President
Priest Quorum 1st Councilor (Bishop is President)
EQ President
Bishop
Stake President
Quorum of Seventy 3-12
Quorum of Seventy 1-2
Quorum of12 apostles
First Presidency
Prophet

With the following post-mortal additions (although I am a bit fuzzy on the chronological order):

Spirit World General Authority
First Man (e.g. Adam)
Disembodied Creator God (e.g. Jehovah)
Savior and Redeemer (e.g. Jesus of Nazareth)
Resurrected superhero & sidekick (e.g. Jesus in America, the Sacred Grove, toast, etc.)
Resurrected Polygamist Ubergod (e.g. Elohim)

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:44 pm So 2 levels above a Stake President?

Is this the hierarchy (no mission stuff)?

Oops. Yes, he was a mission president, then 12 quorum. I think that's a necessary stepping stone.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:15 am

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:44 am Does your friend have a white ceramic bowl and pitcher on display in their home?

I haven't been inside his house since I learned about the sacred artifacts.

What is the significance of these objects? Do they trump the sacred goat leggings?

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:50 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:15 am

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:44 am Does your friend have a white ceramic bowl and pitcher on display in their home?

I haven't been inside his house since I learned about the sacred artifacts.

What is the significance of these objects? Do they trump the sacred goat leggings?

I'm guessing it would be a way to subtly (or not so subtly) display that you've had the 2nd Anointing (these would be the items used for the ceremony where the wife washes the husband's feet at home).

Flaming Meaux wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:59 am I'm guessing it would be a way to subtly (or not so subtly) display that you've had the 2nd Anointing (these would be the items used for the ceremony where the wife washes the husband's feet at home).

So it is part of that church within a church practice. Sounds like this second church is more common than I realized.

Flaming Meaux wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:59 am

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:50 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:15 am
I haven't been inside his house since I learned about the sacred artifacts.

What is the significance of these objects? Do they trump the sacred goat leggings?

I'm guessing it would be a way to subtly (or not so subtly) display that you've had the 2nd Anointing (these would be the items used for the ceremony where the wife washes the husband's feet at home).

And if you understand the symbolism, by washing her husband’s feet, she is officially volunteering to be made his servant for eternity. Yuck, no thanks.