NOM

Just finished watching "Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey." What a crazy story! I recommend it. It shows the ugliness of what some people will do when they have power. Warren Jeffs was a soft spoken monster. I don't want to spoil it for anyone so that is all I'll say.

I really want to watch this but am pretty sure watching it while my wife is around would be problematic... hopefully I can check it out soon though.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:03 am I really want to watch this but am pretty sure watching it while my wife is around would be problematic... hopefully I can check it out soon though.

So, she's not keeping sweet?!

Just fall back on the standard Mormon perspective about what can happen when true principles are corrupted by priestcraft.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:03 am I really want to watch this but am pretty sure watching it while my wife is around would be problematic... hopefully I can check it out soon though.

I watched it. I both enjoyed and was disgusted while watching. Why would watching this be a problem for your wife? It didn't feel anti-LDS at all. Only anti-FLDS, anti-polygamy, and anti-Warren Jeffs. Maybe I'm too removed to see a problem. Just curious.

hmb wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:08 am Only anti-FLDS, anti-polygamy, and anti-Warren Jeffs.

Regular Mormons recognize that this portrayal was them until 1926 when polygamists were no longer allowed in the Temple. That was 36 years after the **wink-wink** first polygamy ban.

hmb wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:08 am I watched it. I both enjoyed and was disgusted while watching. Why would watching this be a problem for your wife? It didn't feel anti-LDS at all. Only anti-FLDS, anti-polygamy, and anti-Warren Jeffs. Maybe I'm too removed to see a problem. Just curious.

My thinking is that if I watch it she will think I'm watching it because she knows how I feel about Joseph Smith's polygamy and that watching it would be me trying to bash the LDS church in a roundabout way because the FLDS stuff is still an offshoot of what Joseph was doing.

That said, I really do want to give this a watch... it sounds horrifying but while I haven't watched Under the Banner of Heaven yet, this one sounds more interesting to me for some reason.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:00 am

hmb wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:08 am I watched it. I both enjoyed and was disgusted while watching. Why would watching this be a problem for your wife? It didn't feel anti-LDS at all. Only anti-FLDS, anti-polygamy, and anti-Warren Jeffs. Maybe I'm too removed to see a problem. Just curious.

My thinking is that if I watch it she will think I'm watching it because she knows how I feel about Joseph Smith's polygamy and that watching it would be me trying to bash the LDS church in a roundabout way because the FLDS stuff is still an offshoot of what Joseph was doing.

That said, I really do want to give this a watch... it sounds horrifying but while I haven't watched Under the Banner of Heaven yet, this one sounds more interesting to me for some reason.

That's understandable. I never had to deal with a believing spouse and their sensitive, protectiveness to the gospel.

I turned it on for a little bit this week during work, so I didn’t pay as much attention to it as needed. I’m mostly through the first episode. It talks quite a bit about Rulon Jeff’s and all of his wives. Pretty disgusting actually; creepy for sure.

2bizE wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:35 pm I turned it on for a little bit this week during work, so I didn’t pay as much attention to it as needed. I’m mostly through the first episode. It talks quite a bit about Rulon Jeff’s and all of his wives. Pretty disgusting actually; creepy for sure.

And it goes downhill rapidly from there. It would make you reminisce about the good old days under sweet Uncle Rulon.

DW and I watched it all the way through to the end and it was both disgusting and illuminating. The 'follow the prophet no matter what' is a theme that resonated with both of us.

I was blown away (and I probably shouldn't have been that surprised) by the raw cynicism of Warren Jeffs and his exploits in Vegas while he is telling his followers the exact opposite (not to dress or act like Gentiles). Different rules for him than his followers.

It's interesting to see now in my mind the different branches of Mormonism. The Community of Christ (RLDS). The LDS. And the FLDS.

But it is just downright disgusting. My wife had nightmares about it. In the end, the great Mormon tradition of keeping records of everything did him in and I'm glad it did even though he is using prison as martyrdom and still releasing revelations to his followers to this day.

It actually kind of pissed me off they went so easy on the LDS Church. The whole reason Rulon and Warren Jeffs were able to have the power to make the lives of so many of their followers to miserable is because Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and John Taylor and their gang laid the groundwork. The kind of hell you see the FLDS in is exactly the kind of hell LDS members experienced in Utah in the 1800s. Except the FLDS didn't have an Orrin Porter Rockwell running around offing people.

They shouldn't have let the Church off the hook. The LDS Church owns this - their founder started the depravity, and the Church has yet to denounce, renounce or condemn that depravity.

2bizE wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:35 pm I turned it on for a little bit this week during work, so I didn’t pay as much attention to it as needed. I’m mostly through the first episode. It talks quite a bit about Rulon Jeffs and all of his wives. Pretty disgusting actually; creepy for sure.

There’s a still photo of Rulon Jeffs kissing one of his young “brides” with an oxygen cannula in his nose. Ugh.

I hope everyone’s believing spouse will watch. It’s far enough removed that they can fall back on it not portraying the mainstream church, but close enough that you can see the ugly consequences of polygamy taking root here in the US.

Oh, and be sure to point out the problem of there being no wives for all the young men. That’s something no apologist has an answer for.

moksha wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:22 am

hmb wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:08 am Only anti-FLDS, anti-polygamy, and anti-Warren Jeffs.

Regular Mormons recognize that this portrayal was them until 1926 when polygamists were no longer allowed in the Temple. That was 36 years after the **wink-wink** first polygamy ban.

I'm horrified by polygamy. The manipulation and coercion were inexcusable. On top of that, the church has the lying that went on for 36 years or more. John W. Taylor as much as said that he was protecting Joseph F. Smith by accepting blame for conducting polygamous marriages.

I will say, my parents (regular Mormons) do not see themselves at all in the FLDS, but only because they don't recognize the church's behavior. The have successfully compartmentalized their religion to condemn Warren but excuse Joseph and completely ignore all the presidents from Brigham to Heber.

Charlotte wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:36 am Oh, and be sure to point out the problem of there being no wives for all the young men.

They kicked the young men out of the community, where they had to live on the streets of Las Vegas. They were known as the "Lost Boys". This was a similar problem during the reign of polygamists in early Utah.

You might Google "Bishop Snow of Manti" to find out how depraved the situation was back then and how low the horny old goats would go to fill their desire for nubile young brides.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Bishop+ ... e&ie=UTF-8


Brigham Young gave this his hearty endorsement.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:14 am
They shouldn't have let the Church off the hook. The LDS Church owns this - their founder started the depravity, and the Church has yet to denounce, renounce or condemn that depravity.

They wouldn’t even have had to dwell on it. Just one question to whatever spokesperson the church chooses: “Is polygamy over in the LDS church?” And see if you get the “from time to time God commands,” and “we are currently in a ‘no’ time,” and many other evasive statements. But the message to LDS women is clear. They won’t denounce or condemn it. They’ll only renounce for the present time. It’s a horrible way to treat us, and a horrible doctrine to keep in the canon.

We watched the first two episodes last night.

It seems life as a polygamist was vastly different after Warren Jeffs became the prophet and tightened the rules and control by moving everyone to short creek.

In some ways this is parallel to the last 25 - 30 years of the church changing its focus to obedience rather than community and wholesomeness.

Fascinating to watch. Glad my ancestors chose the mainstream church otherwise I would now be posting on NOFM - New Order Fundamentalist Mormon.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:21 am

2bizE wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:35 pm I turned it on for a little bit this week during work, so I didn’t pay as much attention to it as needed. I’m mostly through the first episode. It talks quite a bit about Rulon Jeff’s and all of his wives. Pretty disgusting actually; creepy for sure.

And it goes downhill rapidly from there. It would make you reminisce about the good old days under sweet Uncle Rulon.

So true. By the time I finished watching, I thought Rulon wasn't that bad. I mean you could be 18 or 19 years old before being married off to an old geezer. How twisted is that???????

What thought seems to dominate my mind is where would I be if the government hadn’t banned polygamy? What would the LDS church look like today? I can only imagine it would be much more terrible than the FLDS.
I would probably be a descendant from a long line of polygamists. Rogue men would be squatting all over Utah and the west because they were castaways and couldn’t be given multiple wives.

My wife has been watching this, but changes to something else if I happen to come in the room. I'm not sure what to make of her behavior, other than to try to stay away while she watches it.

stealthbishop wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:24 am The Community of Christ (RLDS). The LDS. And the FLDS.

A progression from the gentlest form of Mormonism to the most virulent. Brighamite Mormons would see this as a Goldilocks-type of thing, where the middle one is "just right".