NOM

Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:36 am I'm interested in the technology Jesus and HF use to instantly teleport across the universe from Kolob to Earth.

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:40 am I can promise, that the truth about the universe is more fantastic than anything you could imagine or make up.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:01 pm I get your point SaidNobody.

But what if we already lived it for 30+ years and it just didn’t do anything for us?

What if we worked at it and it just didn’t grow as promised? My fault right?

That experience should count for something, right?

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:27 pm Hagoth,

The universe is more than just knowing stuff. It's about experiencing, working, traveling, and growing. All of the experiences we go through open new doors in the fabric of the cosmos. You cannot just know what a parent is; you must live it. You cannot just know what divinity is, you must have it. Fairytales are the ideas and beliefs that teach us romance, love, honor, chaos, etc. None of it's real unless you believe it.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm I couldn't agree more!

All the more reason to not let yourself get backed into a particular ideological corner. True religious freedom, in my opinion, is the realization that we are free to recognize mythology for what it is and to reflect on it to guide us through some of the tricky parts.

I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.

I think the true Abrahamic sacrifice (one of those useful myths we're talking about) is to have the courage to put your own beliefs on the altar and sacrifice them, hack them into pieces. And then take that long, scary walk out into the unknown. Satan's not going to get you. If God truly wants you to have those old beliefs He/She/It/They will lead you back to them. Or, if you have the faith, God might just keep opening new doors.

Personally, there are things about Mormonism that I love. Sometimes more than others. The authority structure -the good ol' boys club of boring old, self-aggrandizing Pharisees sitting in the high seats - is not one of them. The ridiculous apologetics is not one of them. The arrogant bigotry is not one of them. The mythology and doctored history taught as literal truth is not one of them. The dishonesty, obfuscation, gaslighting, money grubbing - nope. But all of that is coming down from the top. I love so many of the people. I love my Mormon family and neighbors. I am very close to many people in my ward. And I really do love some of the myths. A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:11 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.

This is a great metaphor and along with RR I might be stealing it someday.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:27 pm Hagoth,

The universe is more than just knowing stuff. It's about experiencing, working, traveling, and growing. All of the experiences we go through open new doors in the fabric of the cosmos. You cannot just know what a parent is; you must live it. You cannot just know what divinity is, you must have it. Fairytales are the ideas and beliefs that teach us romance, love, honor, chaos, etc. None of it's real unless you believe it.

I couldn't agree more!

All the more reason to not let yourself get backed into a particular ideological corner. True religious freedom, in my opinion, is the realization that we are free to recognize mythology for what it is and to reflect on it to guide us through some of the tricky parts.

I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.

I think the true Abrahamic sacrifice (one of those useful myths we're talking about) is to have the courage to put your own beliefs on the altar and sacrifice them, hack them into pieces. And then take that long, scary walk out into the unknown. Satan's not going to get you. If God truly wants you to have those old beliefs He/She/It/They will lead you back to them. Or, if you have the faith, God might just keep opening new doors.

Personally, there are things about Mormonism that I love. Sometimes more than others. The authority structure -the good ol' boys club of boring old, self-aggrandizing Pharisees sitting in the high seats - is not one of them. The ridiculous apologetics is not one of them. The arrogant bigotry is not one of them. The mythology and doctored history taught as literal truth is not one of them. The dishonesty, obfuscation, gaslighting, money grubbing - nope. But all of that is coming down from the top. I love so many of the people. I love my Mormon family and neighbors. I am very close to many people in my ward. And I really do love some of the myths. A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:36 pm A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:57 am Anyway, I love the stories.

moksha wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:21 pm

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:57 am Anyway, I love the stories.

Isn't it great when they were rescued by the Eagles, and so sad and yet hopeful at the parting of the Grey Havens? As they say, "The road goes ever on and on..."

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:57 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:36 pm A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.

For me, it was true, or at least circumstantially true. Just before George Washington won the Revolutionary War, he went into the woods to pray. Because he was a badass general, he also had guards that wouldn't let him out of their sight. They reported that George told them to stay back a little as he prayed. They reported seeing a strange bright light ahead where George was praying. George comes back, and they cross the river in the middle of the night and kill some redcoats on Christmas morning.

This is almost exactly what happened to Joseph Smith. While people can argue about what really happened, SOMETHING happened. Aliens, angels, Gods, these might all be relative terms. Who knows what really moves in the fog? But the Joseph Smith story is the mix of true origins of humans on this planet. From Moroni, an ancient American Guardian, to elders journalling about temple work in the Yucatan Temples, the possibilities are very interesting and spiritual.

But the good ole boy club is annoying. I'm not actually a member of the church, and I'm sure I couldn't tolerate it very well. But I am very grateful for my Mormon background. Many of the things I come to believe, which most Mormons would recommend me for re-baptism, try in with the Joseph Smith story. For example, The people of Machu Picchu, high in the Andies, were known as the Cloud People and believed to be fair-skinned, later wiped out by the Incas. The evidence of something, otherworldly, is strong in the area, complimenting the Book of Ester.

Anyway, I love the stories.

I sat alone in the pew during an Ash Wednesday service at a Catholic church in southern Utah. A kind woman sat near me, and we talked after the service concluded. She told me that one of the greatest joys of her life was Starbucks coffee, but for Lent, she was sacrificing the money she would have spent on it in order to help a young single mother in her neighborhood.

Lent inspires small sacrifices like this.

As a Latter-day Saint, I don’t typically do anything for Lent, since we celebrate Pioneer Day and Christmas...