NOM

Africa is the final frontier for Mormonism. Any predictions about how this will go over the next couple of decades? What is the LDS church's chances compared to Evangelicalism? Does it make anyone else sad that American religions in the 21st century continue to mount colonial campaigns to stomp out ancient traditions all over the world?

There are some pretty good indicators that the push for Africa will be a major effort. I was browsing LDS.org's image gallery and I noticed that 50% of the photos in the Living the Gospel collection are of Africans. Some are African Americans, but most are families and congregations in Africa . This is vastly disproportional to the actual demographics of the church, so it looks to me like they are padding the deck for the next big push.

Or are they just publicly overcompensating for their abysmal history with "the seed of Cain?"

I understand that Christianity as a whole is growing very well in Africa. I am curious how Mormonism compares to the other mainstream religions.

I don't know much about Africa. How common are in-dept censuses? Are there any reliable sources of information on population trend and religion?

I thought China was super special.

As a kid I remember fervent prayers asking the Lord to soften the hearts of the people in China. So someday the missionaries could open the country for proselytizing.

I think Africa is growing in a lot of areas. It is third world, trying to become 2nd world in more places. I assume the church is growing there because most folks don’t have the internet yet.
I served a mission in a very poor location. Very poor. The struggles faced by these people were different. The vast majority of new converts stopped attending within a few months. If they all left their homes to go to church, someone would break into their house and steal stuff, so they all couldn’t go. Getting to church was hard. Nobody had cars.

My predictions for Africa: lots of convert baptisms and low church attendance…this will be the norm until people start finding out how the church has historically treated folks of African descent…then baptisms will slow down.
I wonder if a warlord will take over a temple and make it his home and fortress.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:20 pm
As a kid I remember fervent prayers asking the Lord to soften the hearts of the people in China. So someday the missionaries could open the country for proselytizing.

That's because when I was a kid most of the people in Africa couldn't hold the priesthood, attend the temple, or be sealed to their families (you know, kinda like gays today). Hell, give it 50 years and the church will think that their next big convert opportunity is gay pride parades!

-lost

What happens when Mormonism Live starts broadcasting in Swahili? I assume the Church can use its influence to keep the internet out of rural Africa.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:20 pm I thought China was super special.

As a kid I remember fervent prayers asking the Lord to soften the hearts of the people in China. So someday the missionaries could open the country for proselytizing.

I remember the same. Then it was a miracle and fulfilled prophesy when missionaries were finally allowed in China. Then the miracle and the prophesy quietly went away.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:08 pmI assume the Church can use its influence to keep the internet out of rural Africa.

"The Church" probably does think that they can "stop the internet."

Just like they thought they could stop gay marriage with the Proclamation Against the Family, Prop 8, the POX, etc. We all know how that turned out.

Looks like the Church is way behind the rest of the pack. I wonder why? 685 million Christians in Africa at the moment and the Church claims only 318,000.

The Church with its American flavour, predominantly white leadership and MO is not an appealing product.

no1saint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:38 pm Looks like the Church is way behind the rest of the pack. I wonder why? 685 million Christians in Africa at the moment and the Church claims only 318,000.

If the Church had started proselytizing in Africa in 1948, things would have been different.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:57 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:20 pm I thought China was super special.

As a kid I remember fervent prayers asking the Lord to soften the hearts of the people in China. So someday the missionaries could open the country for proselytizing.

I remember the same. Then it was a miracle and fulfilled prophesy when missionaries were finally allowed in China. Then the miracle and the prophesy quietly went away.

I remember this being Russia. Once the gospel got through the iron curtain the Russian people would be baptized en mass finally having the truth. Hmmmm. Don’t hear that anymore. Maybe god is waiting for china to be ready to unleash the baptism madness.

As a missionary in Norway I had plenty of experience teaching African refugees. I have no doubt that the church views Africa as a goldmine of converts because they are remarkably receptive to the message. They seem to be a fairly superstitious people and believing in angels delivering golden plates is no big stretch. We would be on the first contact/lesson and they would interrupt and say "I believe!" Baptize me now! The problem is that they would say that to the next religious opportunity that came along and had no loyalty to a particular church. Which is cool. But super frustrating at the time. So in my opinion Africa will be the next Chile, just on a much grander scale and it will frustrate leadership but where are they going to go?

Emower wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:18 pm So in my opinion Africa will be the next Chile, just on a much grander scale and it will frustrate leadership but where are they going to go?

In Africa, the missionaries should concentrate on soccer baptisms. Also bringing some gold vuvuzelas (like Moroni used) to play at the start of the games might help.

moksha wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:30 am

no1saint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:38 pm Looks like the Church is way behind the rest of the pack. I wonder why? 685 million Christians in Africa at the moment and the Church claims only 318,000.

If the Church had started proselytizing in Africa in 1948, things would have been different.

Excellent point. Why did it take soooooo long for the Brethren to get to message?

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:56 am

Emower wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:18 pm So in my opinion Africa will be the next Chile, just on a much grander scale and it will frustrate leadership but where are they going to go?

In Africa, the missionaries should concentrate on soccer baptisms. Also bringing some gold vuvuzelas (like Moroni used) to play at the start of the games might help.

I agree Moksha. I wonder if the church is building basketball courts at the churches in Africa rather than soccer pitches. The church is such a standardized Utah church. I remember seeing basketball courts through Mexico and Central America. Nobody even had a basketball…I call that culturally blind

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:00 am Excellent point. Why did it take soooooo long for the Brethren to get to message?

They were waiting for the vaccine that cured the Curse of Cain.

Yeah. It's like the Church told the rest of the Christian denominations: "We will spot you 100 years in the conversion of the African people. Then we will start proselyting. Duh.

Emower wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:18 pm As a missionary in Norway I had plenty of experience teaching African refugees. I have no doubt that the church views Africa as a goldmine of converts because they are remarkably receptive to the message. They seem to be a fairly superstitious people and believing in angels delivering golden plates is no big stretch. We would be on the first contact/lesson and they would interrupt and say "I believe!" Baptize me now! The problem is that they would say that to the next religious opportunity that came along and had no loyalty to a particular church. Which is cool. But super frustrating at the time. So in my opinion Africa will be the next Chile, just on a much grander scale and it will frustrate leadership but where are they going to go?

I had this same experience in Toronto in the early 90s. Folks from Ghana and Nigeria were the nicest and most receptive, but they wouldn't stick usually.

I wonder in general what percentage of converts stick with it? If retention drops so low as I suspect it will in years to come will missionaries even go out.


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I had a guy I knew who taught African history at the university I was at, and asked him why Catholicism and other religions did so well in Africa, given the horrors of colonialism and religion throughout its history? And this was the time just before the church got actively involved in Africa, I think it was around 2011-12 I asked him this question. So a decade ago.

He told me that since colonialism is such an ingrained practice there, many people in Africa don't bat an eye when another "white man's" religion is introduced to them. It's just a part of the landscape. Makes a lot of sense, but man, you have to feel for a people that have spent generations suffering under religious colonialism for as long as they have. And now they have to put up with Mormonism.