NOM

Elder Uchtdorf poll:

I voted yes - pushed into the shadows of demotion.

I think that many appreciate his general outlook and positive messages, and those (along with a good dose of pilot stories) will continue in each conference. However, I think he is viewed internally by the "new guard" of Rusty, Hoaks, etc. as part of the "old guard" of Gordy and Tommy...and the new guard is the new sheriff in town. Some might even suggest that the new guard has realized that now is the great day of their power and that they rule to the ends of the earth, or something like that.

The silver fox has been put out to pasture (because they can't get rid of him). Because the future leaders likely will come from the "new guard", I don't forsee any return to significance (in a leadership role) for him. Talk "mojo" will remain. Leadership "mojo" is gone.

Elder Uchtdorf's mainstream Christianity approach (a kind and loving God) was too avant-garde for the apostles with more seniority. It rankled their feathers.

I voted that he's church broke just like everyone else, and he's clearly been demoted and pushed in the shadows but he's still my favorite for his previous body of work. Yes he's church broke but he did some good work while in the FP.

It will be interesting to see how he handles things should he get a turn in the top job. In terms of age and seniority, there is a chance that he gets to be president at some point - at least for a short time.

moksha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:30 pm Elder Uchtdorf's mainstream Christianity approach (a kind and loving God) was too avant-garde for the apostles with more seniority. It rankled their feathers.

^THIS^

Did he speak during the last General-Bore-Fest and woo all the "sisters?"

What was the topic he wooed with?

This is a quote from his recent talk:

"Think of it as your personal, daily restoration. On our journey as pilgrims on the path of glory, we know how easy it is to fall away. But just as minor deviations can draw us out of the Savior’s Way, so too can small and simple acts of realignment assuredly lead us back. When darkness creeps into our lives, as it often does, our daily restoration opens our hearts to heavenly light, which illuminates our souls, chasing away shadows, fears, and doubts."

Could he be referring to apostasy? Anyway, perhaps in the past he was a bit more sympathetic to the doubters. But now he wants to be more in line with what the "brethren" want him to be.

There is probably pressure for him to not deviate from the church's traditional narrative and doctrine and so to keep himself in better graces with the brethren, he must watch that he is not too sympathetic to the unbelievers.

Anyway that's my 2 cents

I agree with stuck. He’s been demoted and pushed to get back in line. The sad thing is you can hear the apathy in his talks.

Read his talk with a few minor changes: it can be applied to anything.

Think of it as your personal, daily gym routine. On our journey as pilgrims on the path of glory, we know how easy it is to fall away from the gym. But just as minor deviations can draw us out of Our slothful way, so too can small and simple acts of realignment assuredly lead us back [to the gym]. When laziness creeps into our lives, as it often does, our daily gym routine opens our hearts to exercise, which illuminates our souls, chasing away shadows, fears, and laziness."

I agree that he has lost his mojo, but I don’t think he is so egotistical that being out of the first presidency, or being told not to show any sympathy for doubters would kill his mojo. I have been thinking about this and I am wondering if it is more than his being out of the first presidency. I mean, he was always “church broke” so that hasn’t changed. And his talks were always more Christlike and compassionate long before he was first presidency. So, I am wondering if the spark has gone out of him for something like his health has taken a turn for the worse. Monson used to be lots of people’s favorite speaker, but the last few years of his life his talks were terrible. The last few years before Monson died, the spark had gone out of him. His talks became flat, then they got repetitive and even flatter to the point he was almost talking in a monotone. The spark went out my mother about two years before her death, and I have seen other people get listless and flat the last few years of life.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:49 pm (Snip)
The last few years before Monson died, the spark had gone out of him. His talks became flat, then they got repetitive and even flatter to the point he was almost talking in a monotone. The spark went out my mother about two years before her death, and I have seen other people get listless and flat the last few years of life.

Interesting observation. I haven’t noticed this but now that you say it I need to pay attention to my older parents and grandparents. Great observation alas.

IIRC, his current assignment is on the Missionary Committee, the corporate marketing arm of the church. At that level you have access to the real numbers and know just how poorly things are going. But unlike being the most functional member of the FP, you no longer have the bully pulpit you need to try to change the product. You are, in essence, put in charge of the weakest part of the business, marketing a defective product with no authority to improve that product. You can do little more than roll out new shades of lipstick for the same old pig.

But you can't leave, and corporate culture will find a way to sanction any agitation for change. My experience has been that when that happens to a highly talented individual, even one completely committed to the organization, the psyche of the individual will protect itself through disengagement. His mojo has retreated from a system that has squandered this intangible resource in the name of orthodoxy.

I think he's performing to his masters. The current leadership is more by command and less nuanced than Monson or Hinkley. Monson may have been more an issue of what penetrated his mental fog in his last few years.

dogbite wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:31 pm Monson may have been more an issue of what penetrated his mental fog in his last few years.

Do you suspect he had a brain cloud?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAB9Y2CVqZU

DPRoberts wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:37 pm IIRC, his current assignment is on the Missionary Committee, the corporate marketing arm of the church. At that level you have access to the real numbers and know just how poorly things are going. But unlike being the most functional member of the FP, you no longer have the bully pulpit you need to try to change the product. You are, in essence, put in charge of the weakest part of the business, marketing a defective product with no authority to improve that product. You can do little more than roll out new shades of lipstick for the same old pig.

But you can't leave, and corporate culture will find a way to sanction any agitation for change. My experience has been that when that happens to a highly talented individual, even one completely committed to the organization, the psyche of the individual will protect itself through disengagement. His mojo has retreated from a system that has squandered this intangible resource in the name of orthodoxy.

I have to agree with this. And I think it's sad for him and a loss for positive redemption/reform for the church. This is his portfolio assignment now so he MUST speak on it or at least make mention of it. And I agree that it is one of the weakest aspects of the church and getting weaker all the time. He had much more freedom in the FP especially with Monson in declining health or at least freedom to speak in the way he wanted. Now Nelson and Oaks are firmly in charge and will be for the foreseeable future until both are gone. Doctrine will be what they decide and Dieter will need to go along with it. Same with Holland. And this is probably why we see Holland also getting in line with his most recent talks.

The shadow of the Sith has fallen. Always two there are! A master and apprentice.