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Temple and garment changes

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:43 pm
by Hagoth
I've been off camping for a while and I came back to a couple of interesting comments that I wonder if anyone here can clarify.

First, a neighbor in the ward told Mrs. Hagoth that during Covid everything in the temple has changed. New endowment, new sealings, etc. Trimmed down and simplified, wording removed and modified, and all physical contact (e.g. handshakes) removed.

Second, on the drive home I was listening to the John Larsen First Vision episode of Mormon Stories and there was an offhand mention of a change that makes wearing garments optional. I doubt very much that means what it sounds like. Can anyone provide further light and/or knowledge?

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:05 pm
by Palerider
Kind of sounds like a member garbled take on this. New style is optional.

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/7/12 ... s-covid-19

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:08 pm
by jfro18
Hagoth wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:43 pm Second, on the drive home I was listening to the John Larsen First Vision episode of Mormon Stories and there was an offhand mention of a change that makes wearing garments optional. I doubt very much that means what it sounds like. Can anyone provide further light and/or knowledge?
That John Larsen comment has been making the rounds, but so far there is absolutely no indication that it is true so I'm guessing he misspoke unless he's got an inside source leaking some pre-GC announcements.

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:51 pm
by græy
Hagoth wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:43 pm First, a neighbor in the ward told Mrs. Hagoth that during Covid everything in the temple has changed. New endowment, new sealings, etc. Trimmed down and simplified, wording removed and modified, and all physical contact (e.g. handshakes) removed.

Second, on the drive home I was listening to the John Larsen First Vision episode of Mormon Stories and there was an offhand mention of a change that makes wearing garments optional. I doubt very much that means what it sounds like. Can anyone provide further light and/or knowledge?
I will try to add some more detail tomorrow when I have time, but for now the short answers are 1) TRUE and 2) FALSE.

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:14 pm
by 2bizE
Tender mercies….my TBM wife made a new friend a few months ago. They go out to lunch monthly or so. Her new friend left the church back when children of gay parents were banned from baptism (POX). This has caused my wife to have a number of questions. A few weeks ago, I shared with her The NY Times article about women needing better garments and “ my vagina needs to breathe” comment. A few weeks ago, my wife stopped wearing garments due to a rash in her groin that she was sure was caused by garments… tender mercies.

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:39 am
by Red Ryder
2bizE wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:14 pm Tender mercies….my TBM wife made a new friend a few months ago. They go out to lunch monthly or so. Her new friend left the church back when children of gay parents were banned from baptism (POX). This has caused my wife to have a number of questions. A few weeks ago, I shared with her The NY Times article about women needing better garments and “ my vagina needs to breathe” comment. A few weeks ago, my wife stopped wearing garments due to a rash in her groin that she was sure was caused by garments… tender mercies.
Go on... :lol:

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:23 am
by græy
2bizE wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:14 pm A few weeks ago, my wife stopped wearing garments due to a rash in her groin that she was sure was caused by garments… tender mercies.
Congrats 2bizE!! That is a HUGE step!
græy wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:51 pm I will try to add some more detail tomorrow when I have time, but for now the short answers are 1) TRUE and 2) FALSE.
Regarding what I wrote here....

1) I'm sure most everyone is aware of the temple changes from January 2019. That included cutting some of the repetitive phrases, only put the robe on one shoulder, no more removing shoes, movie turned slideshow, no more veiling faces, and softening of rhetoric for women (even single women) obeying their husbands to get to heaven.

Sometime after temples started re-opening they also removed the temple workers giving tokens to each member in the endowment session. Instead, just the witness couple receives it and that is the end of it. This was interesting to me because I distinctly remember a temple president explaining to me once upon a time that each individual in the room HAD to receive that physical step in order for the ordinance to be valid.

More so than wording/phrasing/veiling changes from January 2019, this feels like an ACTUAL change to the ORDINANCE (defined by the church as a sacred act).

I actively avoid going to the temple when I can get out of it, so I've only been through the temple once since things reopened. I must say, the ever shortening time requirements are most welcome.

2) I believe everyone also remembers the changes to the temple recommend questions that came out in October 2019.

OLD
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
NEW
Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?
Additionally, the stupid blurb about garments that interviewers are supposed to read changed.

OLD
Wearing the garment is the sacred privilege of those who have taken upon themselves the covenants of the temple. The garment is a reminder of these covenants and, when properly worn, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil.

It is expected that members will wear the garment both night and day, according to covenants made in the temple. Members should not adjust the garment or wear it contrary to instructions in order to accommodate different styles of clothing, even when such clothing may be generally accepted. The garment should not be removed, either entirely or partially, to work in the yard or for other activities that can reasonably be done with the garment worn properly beneath the clothing.

Members who have made covenants in the temple should be guided by the Holy Spirit to answer for themselves personal questions about wearing the garment. These sacred covenants are between the member and the Lord, and the proper wearing of the garment is an outward expression of an inner commitment to follow the Savior Jesus Christ.
NEW
The temple garment is a reminder of covenants made in the temple and, when worn properly throughout life, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil. The garment should be worn beneath the outer clothing. It should not be removed for activities that can reasonably be done while wearing the garment, and it should not be modified to accommodate different styles of clothing. Endowed members should seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to answer personal questions about wearing the garment.

It is a sacred privilege to wear the garment and doing so is an outward expression of an inner commitment to follow the Savior Jesus Christ.
So, nowadays they only indirectly refer to garment wearing as a covenant, whereas it used to be directly indicated as such. And they have removed the contradictory "how you wear it is totally up to you and God. except here is a very specific example to show you what the correct answer always should be so that you know there is really nothing left up to you and God."

Confession: I haven't read the stupid blurb for a very long time now and have no intention of starting.

Summary

The endowment has changed since COVID. I hope the changes are permanent since it cut a significant amount of time out of the ordeal. But there has never been an official announcement regarding those changes that I am aware of so they may bring back the individual handshakes at some point.

No real change in garments other than the softened rhetoric from October 2019. I interviewed an otherwise TBM couple a few weeks ago. The wife has undergone multiple surgeries for breast cancer and has really grown to HATE garments. She confessed to me that she often goes whole days ( :shock: ) without wearing them. I reviewed with her the changes in questions regarding the garments, let her know that how/when they were worn were between her and God and no one else, and signed her recommend.

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:49 pm
by Red Ryder
Thanks for the update Greay!

As you all know... I find the whole underwear thing utterly silly.

The covenant/instruction double speak is just plain stupid.

Do you promise that you wear the underwear (that you didn’t covenant to wear but were instructed to wear in the temple) as an outward sign of an inner commitment to a guy who didn’t wear the same underwear?

If you’ve got problems with wearing said underwear, take it up with a ghost (who also by the way isn't physically able to wear underwear)!

Religious underwear has to be the number 1 dumbest idea on the planet.

Yes Bishop I did pray about it!

The Lord answered my prayer when I turned the TV on and the first commercial that came on was the Fruit of the Loom guys singing:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hd_hSJ0GipI

With a waistband softer than the rain....

I don’t care whatcha want to wear down there cause I got everything you’ll need....

I won’t leave you bare...

In your search for underwear....

From country roads to McTemples by the sea...

Cause if it ain’t fruit you’ll never live...

Comfortably!!!!!!!

Thanks bishop, I prayed and the Fruit Guys answered my prayers.

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:01 am
by moksha
In the Japanese Temples, a tea ceremony would be a nice addition. The British would probably appreciate High Tea for the afternoon sessions.

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:09 am
by Hagoth
Red Ryder wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:49 pm Thanks bishop, I prayed and the Fruit Guys answered my prayers.
That's all well and good, Red, but if they didn't also appear in Elder Oaks' dream you can be assured that you're listening to the wrong ghost.

Re: Temple and garment changes

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:07 am
by græy
Hagoth wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:09 am
Red Ryder wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:49 pm Thanks bishop, I prayed and the Fruit Guys answered my prayers.
That's all well and good, Red, but if they didn't also appear in Elder Oaks' dream you can be assured that you're listening to the wrong ghost.
I think there's a joke in here somewhere the fruity men of Elder Oaks' dreams, but I just can't put my finger on it.... :D