NOM

I think in some interactions with TBM's when they get irrational in discussions/debates it is a good idea to let them save face.


“Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.” Sun Tzu

There is merit in giving a defeated enemy an honorable retreat rather than destroying every remaining unit he has in the field.
In the case above it lead to peace.

The phrase “Golden Bridge” comes from a Chinese military strategist Sun Tzu, who twenty-five hundred years ago wrote a book called The Art of War. He talked about building your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across. In negotiation I would reframe that positively as a golden bridge for both of you to advance across.

Frustrated by the other side’s resistance, you may be tempted to push—to cajole, to insist, and to apply pressure.

But pushing may actually make it more difficult for the other side to agree. It underscores the fact that the proposal is your idea, not theirs. It fails to address their unmet interests. It makes it harder for them to go along without appearing to be giving in to your pressure. And it makes the prospect of agreement seem, if anything, more overwhelming.

Consequently, the other side is likely to resist all the more. In fact, they may welcome your pressure, for it takes them off the hook of having to make a difficult decision.

Instead of pushing the other side toward an agreement, you need to do the opposite. You need to draw them in the direction you want them to move. Your job is to build a golden bridge across the chasm. You need to reframe a retreat from their position as an advance toward a better solution.

Take the simple example of how, as a teenager, filmmaker Steven Spielberg built a golden bridge for a tormenting bully:

When I was about thirteen, one local bully gave me nothing but grief all year long. He would knock me down on the grass, or hold my head in the drinking fountain, or push my face in the dirt and give me bloody noses when we had to play football in phys. ed…. This was somebody I feared. He was my nemesis…. Then, I figured, if you can’t beat him, try to get him to join you. So I said to him, “I’m trying to make a movie about fighting the Nazis, and I want you to play this war hero.” At first, he laughed in my face, but later he said yes. He was this big fourteen-year-old who looked like John Wayne. I made him the squad leader in the film, with helmet, fatigues, and backpack. After that, he became my best friend.

Can't remember who said this:

"He who is persuaded against his will, is of the same opinion still."

It reminds me of the controversy created by Martin Luther when he decided that faith was all that was necessary for salvation. As the debate raged between the Catholic church and himself, each party staked out their territory and became resistant to any compromise.
The Reformation was the result and both parties won and lost on various levels.

Regarding the LDS church and its teachings:

When people tell me what they believe I just smile and nod.

When people actually ask me questions I give them answers to the degree that I think they can process. Sometimes the best answer is, "I just don't believe in that anymore." Sometimes the best answer is "I don't know."

When people tell me what I ought to believe and how I ought to behave, I allow them to choose whether they want to proceed with a discussion that might not go the way they want. That has rarely happened and I haven't had anyone take me up on it.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:53 am I think in some interactions with TBM's when they get irrational in discussions/debates it is a good idea to let them save face.


“Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.” Sun Tzu

There is merit in giving a defeated enemy an honorable retreat rather than destroying every remaining unit he has in the field.
In the case above it lead to peace.

I agree with this although there may be times to push. In general, being coercive and shaming your enemy backfires. (see Germany after WWI). It's challenging to know when to push and when to let go and allow others to save face. The world has built up institutions to help countries save face. It is a core component of diplomacy. The alternative of rubbing your opponents face in it, humilating them and shaming them can lead to perpetual and generational war. OTOH public shaming has it's place. E. JRH publically shamed a "gay Son of God" in order to make his point and scold the BYU faculty. IMO there does need to be some public shaming of JRH for that. Sometimes that is the only way to get a message across. Shame on him! But use with caution and sparingly.