NOM

At the Last Supper, when Jesus washed the Apostles feet, John 13:4 states that he "laid aside his garments and girt himself with a towel" with which he dried his disciples' feet after washing them.

My question is:

If you were the artist creating a serious painting of that scene, would you depict the Savior as described in the scriptures or would you have him more dressed out of concern for what some might consider appropriatness or sensitivity?

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:27 pm If you were the artist creating a serious painting of that scene, would you depict the Savior as described in the scriptures or would you have him more dressed out of concern for what some might consider appropriateness or sensitivity?

Hard to say since Utah has shown signs of leaving the Dark Ages. Assuming the painting would be shown in places that had previously entered the 21st Century, I think a side facing Jesus doing the Maundy Thursday foot-washing needs no further adornment.

I would draw him girt with a towel with his garments set aside. The garments would be folded and you could see some of the Masonic symbols on them.

I certainly would not draw him with the traditional long robe and over coat that he is usually pictured in. How impractical for being on your knees in front of people with a big basin of water and washing their feet. Those traditional long robe and stuff would be the garments he set aside.

And just like you don’t know if the Scotsman has undergarments on under his kilt, we don’t know what Jesus wore under his long robe. So, I would not picture him naked, because the scripture says he wrapped a towel around himself and used the towel to wipe the feet. Now, to wipe all 12 feet, he needed a pretty big towel, so, long, wide cloth wrapped around him, probably covering his privates very well, thank you very much. Towels back they would have been some absorbent cloth like linen, so, really big linen cloth wrapped around him with plenty of extra cloth hanging from both ends of where it wrapped around him.

What’s your answer Pale?

How accurately would you dare depict this in a movie? There is a moment between the removal of the garment and the wrapping of the towel.

2bizE wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 6:50 am I would draw him girt with a towel with his garments set aside. The garments would be folded and you could see some of the Masonic symbols on them.

Would the holy towel also bear the Masonic markings?

moksha wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 10:52 pm

2bizE wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 6:50 am I would draw him girt with a towel with his garments set aside. The garments would be folded and you could see some of the Masonic symbols on them.

Would the holy towel also bear the Masonic markings?

Absolutely. All holy items have Masonic symbols.

Are we talking about the Holy Towel of Turin?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 1:20 pm Are we talking about the Holy Towel of Turin?

I imagine if BYU Religionist/Scientists were asked to participate in an examination of the Shroud of Turin, they would want to search for holy Masonic symbols.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:37 am How accurately would you dare depict this in a movie? There is a moment between the removal of the garment and the wrapping of the towel.

Somewhere in a later season of "The Chosen" this scene will undoubtedly be portrayed. The writers and producers have cut a careful line on several stories already and I'm waiting for some religious group to denounce the show as heresy when some doctrinaire toes inevitably get stepped on.

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:27 pm At the Last Supper, when Jesus washed the Apostles feet, John 13:4 states that he "laid aside his garments and girt himself with a towel" with which he dried his disciples' feet after washing them.

My question is:

If you were the artist creating a serious painting of that scene, would you depict the Savior as described in the scriptures or would you have him more dressed out of concern for what some might consider appropriatness or sensitivity?

John 13:4 Let's see:
13:4 ἐγείρεται ἐκ τοῦ δείπνου καὶ τίθησιν τὰ ἱμάτια καὶ λαβὼν λέντιον διέζωσεν ἑαυτόν·

laid aside his ἱμάτια → the upper garment, the cloak or mantle

and took a λέντιον → apron with which servants put on when about to work

and διέζωσεν himself → to tie a thing around himself

Soooo..... are we going with the JST I mean "Adam Clarke" commentary here, or with the original Greek?
John 13:10 Adam Clarke commentary - https://www.studylight.org/commentaries ... hn-13.html ...

So, I suppose you would go through this with a working apron, following the closest traditional Jewish traditions as you can (painting Jesus with brown skin, brown eyes, black hair etc.)

Angel wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 5:13 pm

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:27 pm At the Last Supper, when Jesus washed the Apostles feet, John 13:4 states that he "laid aside his garments and girt himself with a towel" with which he dried his disciples' feet after washing them.

My question is:

If you were the artist creating a serious painting of that scene, would you depict the Savior as described in the scriptures or would you have him more dressed out of concern for what some might consider appropriatness or sensitivity?

John 13:4 Let's see:
13:4 ἐγείρεται ἐκ τοῦ δείπνου καὶ τίθησιν τὰ ἱμάτια καὶ λαβὼν λέντιον διέζωσεν ἑαυτόν·

laid aside his ἱμάτια → the upper garment, the cloak or mantle

and took a λέντιον → apron with which servants put on when about to work

and διέζωσεν himself → to tie a thing around himself

Soooo..... are we going with the JST I mean "Adam Clarke" commentary here, or with the original Greek?
John 13:10 Adam Clarke commentary - https://www.studylight.org/commentaries ... hn-13.html ...

So, I suppose you would go through this with a working apron, following the closest traditional Jewish traditions as you can (painting Jesus with brown skin, brown eyes, black hair etc.)

This is actually pretty close regarding the clothing. The "Treasury of Knowledge" biblical commentary (which is highly regarded) states:

"laid aside: That is, his gown, or upper coat, ילבפיב, with the girdle by which it was girdled close to his tunic, or inner coat; and instead of his girdle, he tied a towel about him, that he might have it in readiness to dry their feet,and that he might appear as a servant."

So I'm thinking the King James is a little misleading here in the sense that they put it as plural (garments) when in reality it was probably only the removal of the outer garment and the inner girdle while the inner tunic remained in place. Then a "towel" or servant's apron would have been girded about the waist for the task at hand.

It's interesting how the depiction would change as our knowledge increases.

no1saint wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:45 am

I saw this painting online a few weeks ago and thought it was more likely a relatively accurate depiction of the occasion. Until I did the research....

But I see no problem with the painting from an "appropriatness" perspective either.