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Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:12 pm
by deacon blues
This bothers me as well. I think the GA’s are idolized by many.🤩
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:24 am
by Just This Guy
Blashyrkh wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:41 amNothing about how they might benefit from the message of Christ. Nope. Just how awesome Rusty, Dave and their gang are. Honestly it was quite a departure from the church I grew up in.
I have been thinking lately about if that is true or not, that the church is growing less Christ centered.
I would venture to say that what I can remember, the church has always been centered on itself. Just the question is by how much? I would give you that, for me, growing up there was more emphasis on the scriptures. I remember lots of BOM stuff and BOM stories. NT on occasion. It seams to me that the focus has shifted away from worshiping the BOM to worshiping the modern leadership.
At least in my experience, I would say that Christ worship has never been a big thing in my experience. They have just changed how they avoid that topic over the years. Of course like leadership roulette, local variation is certainly a factor.
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:36 am
by Not Buying It
Just This Guy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:24 am
Blashyrkh wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:41 amNothing about how they might benefit from the message of Christ. Nope. Just how awesome Rusty, Dave and their gang are. Honestly it was quite a departure from the church I grew up in.
I have been thinking lately about if that is true or not, that the church is growing less Christ centered.
I would venture to say that what I can remember, the church has always been centered on itself. Just the question is by how much? I would give you that, for me, growing up there was more emphasis on the scriptures. I remember lots of BOM stuff and BOM stories. NT on occasion. It seams to me that the focus has shifted away from worshiping the BOM to worshiping the modern leadership.
At least in my experience, I would say that Christ worship has never been a big thing in my experience. They have just changed how they avoid that topic over the years. Of course like leadership roulette, local variation is certainly a factor.
I remember on my mission how I thought I'd achieved some amazing insight when I figured out that Christ wasn't just another lesson you have sometimes every Sunday like the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Chastity - he is supposed to be the center of everything! Wow, I was gobsmacked.
What I didn't realize was that if he really was the center of everything, it wouldn't have taken me 19 years to figure that out.
Tell you what, that Church worships itself and uses Christ as a bait and switch mostly.
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:54 pm
by Palerider
It must be "understood" that when church leadership speak of believing in Christ, they really mean an individual comes to Him or God only through the mediators at the top of the pyramid. It goes without saying. To think otherwise threatens the power structure of the church, a proposition which is untenable.
This is in direct contradiction to the Biblical scriptures which say, "There is only one mediator between God and man and that person is Jesus Christ."
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:57 pm
by Hagoth
Lately I've been calling it The Church of the Church, an organization whose ultimate goal is to worship itself.
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:01 pm
by Hagoth
Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:57 pm
Lately I've been calling it The Church of the Church, an organization whose ultimate goal is to worship itself.
Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:54 pm
It must be "understood" that when church leadership speak of believing in Christ, they really mean an individual comes to Him or God only through the mediators at the top of the pyramid. It goes without saying. To think otherwise threatens the power structure of the church, a proposition which is untenable.
This is in direct contradiction to the Biblical scriptures which say, "There is only one mediator between God and man and that person is Jesus Christ."
If you listen to conference with this understanding the church's self-worshipping message is deafening. When they talk about obedience to God, they are talking about obedience to themselves. When they talk about God's commandments they are talking about church orthodoxy. He means Us. God's Kingdom is solidly rooted between North Temple and South Temple in Salt Lake City.
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:52 am
by nibbler
In the weeks leading up to general conference and during the weeks following, talks and lessons are dominated by focus on the prophet and church leaders. Even during non-conference times the talks and lessons heavily focus on the church and leaders, but it gets especially bad surrounding conference.
Our last SM was all about prophets and leaders. I found myself singing, "Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah, leader. Leader, leader, Batman, I mean leader."
As an orthodox believer I never saw it, but taking that step back... yeah, the energy spent at church is mostly centered around worshiping the church, its leaders, and its claimed authority.
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:23 am
by deacon blues
When I grew up in early 1970’s Rexburg, Id. the main message, repeated over and over was “read the BOM and pray until you get a testimony of THE CHURCH. It wasn’t until I got out on my mission that I listened to other Christians talk about what Jesus Christ meant to them that I saw that Jesus was the focus of Christianity. When I returned it seemed that Church, in reaction to mainstream Christianity, focused more on Jesus. But it was a minor adjustment. The priority has always been the Church,the priesthood, and the ordinances.
Re: Worship the church rather than Christ
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:44 pm
by Thoughtful
So, so many sacrament meetings where Christ was only mentioned in the prayers.
Spouseman and I used to tally Jesus references because they were rare.