NOM

Has this been discussed before? There's a fascinating article about it in the Tribune: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/09 ... s-gay-son/

I get the impression that dad is not at all on board with this. It makes me wonder how this got past apostle vetting.

What do you want to bet they'll do what they did with Christofferson. Gong will be assigned a talk in conference about the proclamation to prove the degree of his church-brokenness.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:38 pmWhat do you want to bet they'll do what they did with Christofferson. Gong will be assigned a talk in conference about the proclamation to prove the degree of his church-brokenness.

Dear Min, I hope not.

A weed among flowers. That truly fits me; that is how I always felt in the church. I'm not gay, but I never fit in. Weeds are survivors though.

Imagine a church where it didn’t matter!

That’s the church I want to attend (at max on Christmas and Easter!)

The LDS church likes to point out the LGBT members that conform to LDS standards. Tom Christofferson is the gold standard here as the brother of an apostle and gay man living to LDS standards. He leaves the LDS church, lives a long life as an openly gay man, then comes back to the faith full of repentance and obedience. It's a nice story for the institutional church.

And yet, the seeds of legalistic deconstruction exist in the narrative. The church is hoping that Brother Gong and Brother Christofferson are the models of LGBT members going forward. But note how Tom Christofferson left the church, lived his mortal life, and comes back in his 70s to finish off his mortality with the LDS fold. This should technically be a legal model for any LGBT member to follow. Go live your best gay life with family and you can return with full membership once the natural conservatism of age kicks in.

This is not the message that the LDS church wants to promote. I hope Elder Gong's son figures out the best path for himself.

Imagine a church where it didn’t matter!

That’s the church I want to attend (at max on Christmas and Easter!)

It’s surprising that Mathew Gong didn’t automatically disqualify Elder Gong from the Apostleship. That gives me a glimmer of hope that the Q15 have some compassion when they voted for Gong. Although I imagine a 7-7 vote and President Nelson breaking the tie knowing the church needs to provide a glimmer of hope to the gay members who still want to be Mormon.

Too bad we couldn’t have a Netflix documentary special that follows the Q15 around in their garments running the church. I’d watch that!

Corsair wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am But note how Tom Christofferson left the church, lived his mortal life, and comes back in his 70s to finish off his mortality with the LDS fold. This should technically be a legal model for any LGBT member to follow. Go live your best gay life with family and you can return with full membership once the natural conservatism of age kicks in.

Are you implying his libido dried up and he can now live a celibate gay Mormon life comfortably under the law of chastity?

Joking aside, sister RR and I attended a “fireside” where he spoke and told his life story. I was impressed up until he started to bear his testimony. I couldn’t understand how a man vilified and tossed aside by his own church could then come crawling back when the church isn’t welcoming him back with open arms. I got the impression that he was giving up his true self to be part of the church again. Almost like a deathbed confession. It was weird.

The other confusing part of that event was listening to an openly gay guy hope in wonderment for the day the church would allow him to have a celestial marriage to another man. While I support those dreams, I sat their screaming in my mind “dude... it’s all made up! You can have those dreams come true today outside of the church and not waste another minute of your beautiful life waiting for the Mormon church! Run, go and live your life....

I would rather see every gay person leave the church than wait around for acceptance and equality. It can’t die fast enough in my brain.

Dumb fake church holds EVERYONE hostage somehow.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:49 am That’s the church I want to attend (at max on Christmas and Easter!)

Be cautious. Mormons can become easily disoriented when hearing inspirational sermons.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:00 am Are you implying his libido dried up and he can now live a celibate gay Mormon life comfortably under the law of chastity?

I'm actually disappointed in myself for not pointing that out more explicitly.

Outside of living with his partner, I imagine that Tom Christofferson lived a fairly normal, Protestant lifestyle. Ending his long term relationship was the only barrier to LDS re-entry. The status of that relationship seems to be the real tragedy here.

I would imagine that unless Tom Christofferson commit LDS re-entry, he would find himself significantly estranged from his family. That is a sad and lonely time in anyone's life, but especially sad at the end of one's life. Yet, that is the very cruel demand place on gay people and other "outliers".

I wish that all gay people could leave the church and its extreme cruelty, but I understand that anguish and loneliness that occurs from that decision. Tragic that it has to come down to this. Cannot wait until the church is a thing of the past and everyone has moved on to freedom, light, and authenticity. -- Wndr.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:17 pm
A gay member can absolutely live a celibate life just as a straight member can. Are you implying that lgbtq people are devoid of any morals and can't control their sexual urges? My uncle was openly gay long before it 4was popular. He suffered a lot of discrimination but he always held a temple recommend. My sister is a devout member. Never been married and I truly believe that she has been celibate her entire life. Surprise but a lot of people have strong morals and dont let sex control them.

There is a big difference though. Straight people and LGBTQ can choose celibacy, but the choices to do so are for very different reasons. If a straight person wants to engage in a celibate life or a mormon worthy married life, they can without shame and label of sin. If a gay or transgender person want the same they cannot choose marriage. The reasons to make the choice of being celibate are different. It does not mean they can't control themselves. It's just an unfair way to treat a group of people. At least that's how I read the above comments.

hmb wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:18 am

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:17 pm
A gay member can absolutely live a celibate life just as a straight member can. Are you implying that lgbtq people are devoid of any morals and can't control their sexual urges? My uncle was openly gay long before it 4was popular. He suffered a lot of discrimination but he always held a temple recommend. My sister is a devout member. Never been married and I truly believe that she has been celibate her entire life. Surprise but a lot of people have strong morals and dont let sex control them.

There is a big difference though. Straight people and LGBTQ can choose celibacy, but the choices to do so are for very different reasons. If a straight person wants to engage in a celibate life or a mormon worthy married life, they can without shame and label of sin. If a gay or transgender person want the same they cannot choose marriage. The reasons to make the choice of being celibate are different. It does not mean they can't control themselves. It's just an unfair way to treat a group of people. At least that's how I read the above comments.

AND, it isn’t just about being going without sex. It is also about going without love. My brother is a 64 year old virgin, but you know what I know he is not happy. He has led a very lonely life. That is what this, “oh you can just live celibate” attitude is wishing on gay people. Loneliness.

And what about when a gay person falls in love. I assume you are married, what would you give up to stay with your spouse?

Why do so many straight people think THEIR marriage is about love and companionship and a gay person’s marriage is just about sex? My god how prejudiced.

My comments weren’t about sex other than to suggest it would suck to have to sacrifice sex for the sake of religious acceptance. The point of my comment was the realization that love in the church is 100% conditional.

The church tells people how and whom to love. It breaks my heart to see people struggle to fit into that conditional box when if they could see the church for what it is, they wouldn’t have to.

Blackysh, I’m glad your uncle could maintain a temple recommend if that was important to him. I admire people who hold their convictions on a pedestal because I clearly don’t (anymore).