NOM

My brother R has not attended the LDS church since he was probably around 12. He is an Army combat veteran, lots of tattoos, drinks beer, enjoys the occasional cigar. Great guy and my kids love him.

R came over to my house a couple months ago and mentioned that he had gotten a phone call from our dad. Apparently, SLC contacted dad (who is still pretty orthodox, but is smart enough not to let it affect his relationships with his kids who aren't members, which is most of them at this point) looking for R's contact information. Apparently, dad told the sweet little old lady manning the phones that he wasn't going to give them R's contact info, that R knows how to find them if and when he wants to return. He also gave R a head up that this conversation had taken place, and would continue to take place every couple of years or until R has his member records removed. We all thought this was weird, but were fine with how Dad handled it (R always keeps an O'Douls in the fridge for when dad visits, if that tells you anything about their relationship).

Fast forward to the middle of July. Husband and I are coming home from a vacation (to Utah, which is pretty damn ironic) when I hear from my sister-in-law, who has been Catholic her entire life. And get this: the church had contacted HER. And nobody is sure how they got her phone number, when they apparently don't even have R's phone number, and he is the one who is still technically LDS.

I think my 15 year old son expressed it best: "that wasn't very cash money of them."

Well, since we were on a road trip, Husband and I had plenty of time to talk about this, and surprise surprise, DH sided with the church. (In a way I feel sorry for him, having to defend their sh*tty cultlike behavior, but also he could start using his brain any time he chooses). I repeatedly stressed to my husband that sister-in-law has NEVER been Mormon, not for a single second of her life. Husband used the example of the shepherd going after the 1 lost sheep, which led me to 2 questions:
1) it was pretty clear that the church is trying to get R to LEAVE, not come back (shoving the sheep off a cliff in the analogy) and
2) eve if he WANTED to come back, how would he? There haven't been any church meetings in 4-5 months at this point
And more importantly, how in the HELL did they get SIL's phone number? DH has worked for student loan companies before, so he kept using the phrase 'skip tracing,' which I guess is fine and good if you've defaulted on student loans, but the LDS Church is (or at least pretends to be) a CHURCH, not a financial institution, and my brother doesn't actually OWE them a damn thing.

Anyway, after arguing about this for ages and ages I realized I was never going to get Husband to see it my way if the fundamental question is, "Was the Church legally justified in this behavior?" Because my husband can justify anything the Church does (I'm not SAYING he's a Pharisee, but...) and I kind of feel sorry for him that he gives love, money, loyalty, and money to an institution that does not, and CANNOT, ever love him in return. So what I asked him was this:

Me: Did calling SIL on the phone make her feel like the Church loves R and wants him to come back?
Husband: well apparently not
Me: Did calling SIL on the phone make R feel like the Savior loves him?
Husband: ummm no I guess not
Me: THEN MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT

To be the devil's advocate here: Since the Republican Congress let the telemarketing protections from the Clinton era lapse, there is no protection from unwanted business calls. Mormons thus are free to be annoying telemarketers until voters get fed up with no protection from such intrusion.

I see both sides.

Tracking members to keep records aligned with ward boundaries is super obnoxious for both parties. I remember having to track people down who showed up on the records but had no intent to ever visit their local ward. I hated doing that knowing full well these people wanted nothing to do with the church. My thoughts were “if they don’t want to be bothered then they should remove their records...”. Now I understand the nuanced reasons for not removing them but wanting to be left alone.

This also happens in real life too.

Sister R and I Bought tickets to the opera a few years back. It was our first and only time going. We still her their emails, promotions, and calls for donations.

I guess the moral of the story is to be thankful family doesn’t give out your personal info.

This is just wrong. I would find a way to robocall the church department doing this band get back at them.

This is gross. The church trains members as early as possible to do crap like this and count the awkward feelings as temptations. The better you bury your decency the better you are at contacting people. On my mission they would have us do the Open Your Mouth stretch several times per zone conference to remind us that we needed to overcome the urge to be decent and let people live their lives without butting in.

Sorry your brother and SIL had to deal with this, and that your husband doesn't understand.

You know what I would LOVE?

I was baptized Catholic as an infant, and my parents joined the church a few years later. I technically never resigned my membership in the Catholic church.

I would DIE if our local diocese started calling up my husband and nagging him about my whereabouts. It would be so fun for my husband to argue that a different church is evil for doing the same thing that our church does.

AdmiralHoldo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:11 pm You know what I would LOVE?

I was baptized Catholic as an infant, and my parents joined the church a few years later. I technically never resigned my membership in the Catholic church.

I would DIE if our local diocese started calling up my husband and nagging him about my whereabouts. It would be so fun for my husband to argue that a different church is evil for doing the same thing that our church does.

I'm sure you could talk someone on NOM into playing that role for you

I’m not so sure they care about him coming back, I think they just want to make sure his address and phone number are updated....because old ladies on senior missions take their unpaid volunteer work seriously...

AdmiralHoldo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:11 pm You know what I would LOVE?

I was baptized Catholic as an infant, and my parents joined the church a few years later. I technically never resigned my membership in the Catholic church.

I would DIE if our local diocese started calling up my husband and nagging him about my whereabouts. It would be so fun for my husband to argue that a different church is evil for doing the same thing that our church does.

That would be so epic. You should hit Hagoth up, sounds like he’s volunteering to call!

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:50 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:11 pm You know what I would LOVE?

I was baptized Catholic as an infant, and my parents joined the church a few years later. I technically never resigned my membership in the Catholic church.

I would DIE if our local diocese started calling up my husband and nagging him about my whereabouts. It would be so fun for my husband to argue that a different church is evil for doing the same thing that our church does.

That would be so epic. You should hit Hagoth up, sounds like he’s volunteering to call!

But please record the call and post it here so we can all partake.

2bizE wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:28 pm This is just wrong. I would find a way to robocall the church department doing this band get back at them.

The church didn't violate any laws, so their action was not illegal. If SIL wants her number removed from their calling list, she needs to ask them.

I wouldn't go so far to say the church's call is morally wrong. Our society allows for most open business contact (e.g. telemarketers, door to door solicitors, etc.) unless you ask not be contacted (e.g. no soliciting sign). And we allow even more leeway for non-business (e.g. charity, political) purposes.

I will say that the church's call is less effective. But, I think all telemarketing is less effective and I still seem to get calls about my expiring auto warranty on a regular basis, so they must work with somebody!