NOM

I get emails from Academia.edu alerting me to newly published papers they think I might be interested in. Today I got a notice for a paper called Death Before Adam, Evolution and the Pre-Adamites. An author is named but not a publication, so I'm guessing this is likely something written at BYU or BYU-I, maybe by a grad student, without any sort of peer review.

The introductory paragraph begins with:

Does the author “believe” in Evolution or in the idea of death before Adam? Belief is a strong statement. For sure, these ideas are favored ideas in my mind at the moment. I change my mind constantly when better information is had, and will certainly defer when a prophet gets revelation that would overturn this, or if I was instructed by priesthood authority to change my mind in order to retain my standing in the Church.

What a terrific summary of how of LDS apologetics works; staying in line with priesthood leaders must always trump reason and intellectual integrity. The author also points out that not all statements by church leaders are doctrine, which allows him to cherry pick the ones he likes.






In case you're interested, the author makes his case that, yes, humans evolved from lower forms and eventually developed into beings that were anatomically and mentally indistinguishable from fully modern human beings, BUT they were an entirely different family and, unlike us, are NOT GODS (author's capitalization). Pre-Adamites evolved in Africa but real people started with Adam and Eve, who were the legitimate spirit children of Elohim, created in Missouri. So evolution is true, but the doctrinal story is even truer... or whatever your priesthood authorities say is true or truer, dumb/dumber.

I've heard that name before, so I googled it and came up with this: https://independent.academia.edu/EdwinGoble

I also liked this quote: "Elder James E. Talmage examined an altar of stones at Adam-Ondi-Ahman in Missouri “which
Joseph Smith identified as Adam's altar, and found fossilized animals in the stones.” So, the
conclusion made by Elder Talmage was that “if those stones be part of the first altar, Adam built
it of stones containing corpses, and therefore death must have prevailed in the earth before
Adam's time.”1 On August 9, 1931, James E. Talmage gave the talk “The Earth and Man” in the
Salt Lake Tabernacle that was later published in pamphlet form by the Church. That is not an
insignificant fact. Elder Talmage stated that “the earth passed through ages of preparation . . .
during which countless generations of plants and animals existed . . ., and gave in part the very
substance of their bodies to help form certain strata . . . These lived and died, age after age,
while the earth was yet unfit for human habitation.”2

This quote made we wonder "where have all the Talmadges gone?" They are certainly not found among general authorities of the church anymore.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 8:43 am "Elder James E. Talmage examined an altar of stones at Adam-Ondi-Ahman in Missouri “which
Joseph Smith identified as Adam's altar, and found fossilized animals in the stones.”

Good for Talmage. He might just as easily have concluded that it was not the actual altar built by Adam but just rocks piled up by some rando, so the fossils could have been post-Adam. There is something kind of charming about Talmage's unquestioning acceptance of the Adam story alongside his rational observation of the physical evidence.

When I visited Adam-Ondi-Ahman as a TBM one of the first things I noticed was that the rocks there are chock full o' the fossils of tiny creatures. I wasn't quite sure what to make of it.

One could consider the fossils as evidence of the flood, or as evidence of matter from another planet being recycled. Any temple-worthy view could be considered, which means the true interpretation would depend on what one’s particular bishop or stake president believed.It almost sounds like truth is related to bishop roulette.🤭

Ah yes, good ole Edwin Goble. Well evidence always trumps what one "feels" to be right, so to defer to priesthood authoritah without any evidence is ridiculous. It's evidence alone which has always established reality on our human scale. Nothing else has ever taken its place. Wishful thinking, doctrine, and authoritah are fundamentally irrelevant. This is why Mormons have been accused of being brainwashed.

I hope that the author never has to face himself in the mirror and repeat these words, "Oh no, it was all made up and I wrote what??"

Kolob and Archaeo-astronomy
... Abraham actually understood both, and when he went to the Egyptians to preach, he did not preach specifically a geocentric cosmology as some LDS Apologists would have us believe. Rather, he was showing them how the symbolism in the geocentric cosmologies actually represents the grand reality, or the literal way we understand the universe now. Our cosmology has finally started to catch up with what Abraham and other ancient prophets knew.

Wow, look how well Bro Ed Gullible can take apologetics and shove it even deeper into the apologetics rabbit hole! He's like the epitome of an apologist enigma.

Hawk girl has a blog over at Wheat and Tares all about conspiracy theories and the people who fall for conspiracy theories and how Mormonism makes people prone to believe conspiracy theories. It kind of applies to this discussion.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 11:48 am

Kolob and Archaeo-astronomy
... Abraham actually understood both, and when he went to the Egyptians to preach, he did not preach specifically a geocentric cosmology as some LDS Apologists would have us believe. Rather, he was showing them how the symbolism in the geocentric cosmologies actually represents the grand reality, or the literal way we understand the universe now. Our cosmology has finally started to catch up with what Abraham and other ancient prophets knew.

Wow, look how well Bro Ed Gullible can take apologetics and shove it even deeper into the apologetics rabbit hole! He's like the epitome of an apologist enigma.

Yeah, I have heard that angle, that the BoA astronomy sounds silly because it's more advanced than current knowledge. Since it is right in line with 19th century speculation I guess we must be on the decline, despite our fancy telescopes and deep space probes (the Space Force branch of the Arm Of Flesh).

Mormonism has also had a big effect on the politics of its members, especially in the States. How many groups can boast that its members are 'right' of Attila the Hun? It seems to me to be all intertwined with conspiracy theories and gullibility.

Well, at least Attila was not Trump.