NOM

deacon blues wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 11:05 am I agree that faith and hope in God don't depend on whether he has a physical body or not.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:11 pm

deacon blues wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 11:05 am I agree that faith and hope in God don't depend on whether he has a physical body or not.

But this is one of those primary distinctions that Mormons really dig in on. Joseph Smith's First Vision demonstrate that God and Jesus are separate beings and that they have toenails and earlobes, so we're really going to put our foot down on those things.

Have you ever talked religion with a Jehovah's Witness? You can hardly get past the argument about whether Jesus was crucified on a cross or a post. As far as I'm concerned, nothing about the story changes regardless of whether he was hung on a cross, a post, or the Golden Arches but it is really, really important to them because they identify it as a significant differentiator from other Christian faiths.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:11 pm I suppose an apologist might say this is an example of line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept. Joseph grew up in a trinitarian Christian environment. He didn't ostensibly report two people in the First Vision, and he translated the Book of Mormon with a trinitarian spin because he wasn't expecting a separate Father and Son. He and subsequent redactors of the BoM eventually brought it around to a more correct representation of the Godhead, so no harm no foul. I guess this can be extended to the First Vision, but it requires you to believe that Joseph either wasn't aware there was a second personage there at the time, and then later remembered him, or that he didn't think it was important at first and gradually accepted that he should start talking about seeing two personages, once it finally began to dawn on him that Jesus and the Father were two distinct individuals.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 11:05 am I agree that faith and hope in God don't depend on whether he has a physical body or not.

But this is one of those primary distinctions that Mormons really dig in on. Joseph Smith's First Vision demonstrate that God and Jesus are separate beings and that they have toenails and earlobes, so we're really going to put our foot down on those things.

Have you ever talked religion with a Jehovah's Witness? You can hardly get past the argument about whether Jesus was crucified on a cross or a post. As far as I'm concerned, nothing about the story changes regardless of whether he was hung on a cross, a post, or the Golden Arches but it is really, really important to them because they identify it as a significant differentiator from other Christian faiths.

alas wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:56 pm Ya know, I just gotta say that I think it *would* make a difference if Christ was crucified on the Golden Arches. That would mean it happened during my life time. Those Golden Arches didn’t exist when I was born, so there would be a recent historical record, and maybe we could check out a few details.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 6:30 am I'll have to pull out my McDonaldist apologetics on this one.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 6:30 am

alas wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:56 pm Ya know, I just gotta say that I think it *would* make a difference if Christ was crucified on the Golden Arches. That would mean it happened during my life time. Those Golden Arches didn’t exist when I was born, so there would be a recent historical record, and maybe we could check out a few details.

I'll have to pull out my McDonaldist apologetics on this one. Just because we haven't found archaeological evidence of the Golden Arches does not prove that they didn't exist in first century Judeah. Some may point to the historical advent of McDonalds in the 20th century as evidence of its non-antiquity, but they entirely fail to recognize that today's McDonalds is merely a latter-day restoration of the original. Considering that the arch is inseparably associated with the Roman architecture, and that the Romans often created colonnades of multiple arches, it should be no surprise that they might have made use of two arches placed alongside each other, and that these could have been decorated in any color, including gold/yellow, and used for any number of applications, including crucifixion. There is also ancient textual evidence to support this restoration. A Latin text dated to the first century CE makes reference to a Roman architect named Grandus Maximus, which modern McDonaldists have translated as Big Mac. Additionally, the 2nd century Gospel According to Saint Ronald tells us that when Pilot offered to release a prisoner there were actually three candidates. Barabbas barely won his freedom over cries of "Release the Hamburglar." The other two were both archified, according to St. Ronald, and one of the last things spoken by Jesus was when he turned to the Hamburglar hanging on the arch beside him and proclaimed, "Today shalt thou be with me in the Playplace."

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 6:30 am

alas wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:56 pm Ya know, I just gotta say that I think it *would* make a difference if Christ was crucified on the Golden Arches. That would mean it happened during my life time. Those Golden Arches didn’t exist when I was born, so there would be a recent historical record, and maybe we could check out a few details.

I'll have to pull out my McDonaldist apologetics on this one. Just because we haven't found archaeological evidence of the Golden Arches does not prove that they didn't exist in first century Judeah. Some may point to the historical advent of McDonalds in the 20th century as evidence of its non-antiquity, but they entirely fail to recognize that today's McDonalds is merely a latter-day restoration of the original. Considering that the arch is inseparably associated with the Roman architecture, and that the Romans often created colonnades of multiple arches, it should be no surprise that they might have made use of two arches placed alongside each other, and that these could have been decorated in any color, including gold/yellow, and used for any number of applications, including crucifixion. There is also ancient textual evidence to support this restoration. A Latin text dated to the first century CE makes reference to a Roman architect named Grandus Maximus, which modern McDonaldists have translated as Big Mac. Additionally, the 2nd century Gospel According to Saint Ronald tells us that when Pilot offered to release a prisoner there were actually three candidates. Barabbas barely won his freedom over cries of "Release the Hamburglar." The other two were both archified, according to St. Ronald, and one of the last things spoken by Jesus was when he turned to the Hamburglar hanging on the arch beside him and proclaimed, "Today shalt thou be with me in the Playplace."

moksha wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 10:27 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 6:30 am I'll have to pull out my McDonaldist apologetics on this one.

FAIRMcDonalds would point out that the letters M, C, and L are all used in the Roman counting system. This establishes the claim of the world's one true fries.