NOM

I just learned from my friend, who is also the financial clerk in our ward, that our ward uses less than a third of the collected fast offerings to help the needy in our ward. Our ward is in a pretty financially stable area and I assume there isn't a lot of need. I asked where the rest goes and he didn't know exactly but speculates it goes to the COB to use as they please. The thing that really bothers me is the young women in our ward have been collecting money to help some families in our ward with Christmas. I asked my friend why fast offering funds are not used to help these families? He said they can only use fast offerings for specific things and are not allowed to buy gifts with those funds. What a load of crap!!! IT'S CHRISTMAS GIFTS FOR CHILDREN FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! It pisses me off that the church sells fast offerings as this great way help the local families in our ward but the bulk of the money isn't used for that. I refuse to give fast offerings anymore. I can't stand the idea that that money could end up in the church's coffers when they already extort huge sums from the members with tithing. People genuinely think they are helping others by donating to fast offering. What a scam!

The note at the bottom of the tithing slip says it all. They can use the money however they want.

I have yet to run into a church that says that if you give to the poor they can use it to repair the organ or pay the secretary. Usually, fund raising for outreach / community / poor is dedicated solely to that purpose.

I was recently a finance clerk until we moved and I was released. I'd just like to add some clarifying details to what your friend told you. Every bishop and branch president is counseled to use FO funds as directed by the spirit. Of course that means that some bishops will be more 'giving' and some will be more 'reserved'. Every month, each church unit will get a report from the COB outlining how they are doing on FO outlays vs. FO collections. The stake finance clerk will review this with the ward finance clerk. As long as your outlays are less than your collections, you really don't get any attention. This same report is run at the stake level, where the stake monitors how the entire stake is doing on FO collections vs. FO outlays. The handbook (I know this is everyone's favorite topic here), is very specific about what types of situations warrant the use of FO funds. Once the outlays exceed the collections, as I understand it, there is more attention paid to where the funds are going and how the money is being spent (I never actually saw this happen, I just heard about it).

Wards have much more latitude over how money is spent that is collected under the "other" account line item. Money that goes into the "other" account line is completely controlled by the local leadership. In our ward, we would get several people each year that would come to us and ask to make special Christmas donations. We would file these contributions under the "other" line which allowed the bishop to have complete control over how the funds were spent.

I know a lot of good is done with Fast Offerings. I've seen it first hand. I also know that in the relatively affluent area where I lived, there just wasn't as much need. The extra contributions from the ward I was in helped support other wards that didn't collect enough in fast offerings to support the need they have in their ward. I'm completely OK with that.

azflyer wrote:I know a lot of good is done with Fast Offerings. I've seen it first hand. I also know that in the relatively affluent area where I lived, there just wasn't as much need. The extra contributions from the ward I was in helped support other wards that didn't collect enough in fast offerings to support the need they have in their ward. I'm completely OK with that.

I am another former ward clerk and can confirm AzFlyer's information.

In addition, every disbursement from Fast Offerings is supposed to be assigned for the benefit of an individual in the ward. There is some leeway for non-members, but it is not openly encouraged. Also, any checks written out are to explicitly go directly towards utilities, car repair shops, or medical facilities if a person is getting Fast Offering assistance. Checks to individuals are never allowed.

The common Fast Offering guideline for Bishops is: Money is for supporting life, not lifestyle. Money spent at a toy store for Christmas gifts is not really within the guidelines. A YW Christmas project will almost certainly get flagged during one of the regular financial audits. I concur with wanting to spend money on Christmas gifts, but the Fast Offering system is not set up to really assist.

Thanks for all the insights from everyone.

This made me think.
Let's use simple math and say the total annual FO donations for a ward is $100. The outlays are $80 to local members. That means $20 surplus is for the stake use. This happens every year for 10 years. The ward has collected $1000 and spent $800.

As long as outlays don't exceed income no one really pays much attention.

One year, this ward has a rough patch. Needs have increased. The ward has income of $100 but spends $120. Now, the COB is paying attention. Does the $200 extra over the last 10 years not factor in?

Also, especially in Utah, wards and stakes are relatively small. There are affluent wards and stakes and poor stakes and wards. The affluent units will take care of their own better since they have less need and more money. But the poorer units will always struggle since outlays can't exceed income and there will always be a greater need.

Meilingkie has outlined previously on NOM many items that fast offering and tithing are used for above and beyond what might appear in the guidelines.

The OP does have a point - when unused Fast Offering funds are sent to Salt Lake, who knows how they are used. They were donations specifically made to help the poor, but the Church's lack of financial transparency and obsession with wealth generation hardly inspires confidence that those funds will be used that way. Maybe they are, but how would we know?

Well, checking in after quite a few weeks of absence.
Work getting in the way after Hanjin foundered......

On fast-offerings, well yes on the old board I had quite some things to tell.
In the new system in Europe the bishop is more or less shackled to the SP.
Max. expenses EUR 300,00/family/month.
Max. 3 months.
A form needs to be filled out, then the BP sends a paymentorder to Milan.
Milan contacts the SP to sign off on these payments.
SP contacts BP to check, then can sign off or refuse.
SP sends orders to Milan to pay.

However, the fact remains that the Fast Offerings received in any ward are eclipsed by the Fast Offerings needed.
They always have, only since our new SP did we reach a near equilibrium.

For the newbies.
My former SP had a good friend in financial dire straits.
This friend incidentally was a bishop in the same stake.
They also had some businessdealings together in Real Estate we recently found out.
So SP decides to help out, to the tune of EUR 1000,00 every week.
Not once, not twice, but every single week for 5 full years, and then some.
Total damage to the church runs in excess of 300K.

Did people know, of course they did, but everyone remained silent.
Did the ward rake in 1000 EUR in FO every week, nope. The total income, while considerable at times necessitated the Stake to pay out of pocket itself.
The Milan Financial office noticed and informed the Area President, elder Teixeira.
So calls were made after 2 yars had passed. Elder Kieran made the phonecalls, sent letters and emails demanding a stop.
SP was quite shocked at first, but realised only an Apostle could stop it, so he shrugged and continued.
In the end my best friend who was a counselor in the SPy was confronted with it when SP arrived too late at a meeting and the Stakeclerk shared the story.
My friend, a man of great integrity and honesty demanded to stop, or he would resign.
As the 2nd counselor had just resigned in protest about it already the SP could do no different than accept that the situation needed remedying.
Not that it helped much.......
Also the Auditing-committee of the stake had quit, all because of the result from the audits which turned up this affair.

In the end my friend wrote to elder Ballard, and suddenly one year earlier than planned the SP was released.
Of course elder Teixeira was not spared, from the plum assignment of Europe Area President he was sent to become 2nd Counselor in South America South, as close to Antarctica as you can be. It lasted 2 years for him. Now he´s back Area President again in Buenos Aires.

As the cow has died, the bishop who was released the week before the SP was released left the church, never to be seen again.
We also found recently that SP received regular kickbacks from this BP.
Obviously the new Stakepresidency decided to let it go, no-one was excommunicated.
However one person decided to go against it, and wrote a letter to the new SP demanding an excommunication of the person involved, or he would go to the dutch IRS and file for tax-evasion fraud by the old BP and SP. Resulting in the loss of the Church´s tax-exemption.

SP brought in 6 people who might be in the know, and I was one of them.
We were grilled for 3 hours by the complete Presidency, our own Area-70 and the Area-President.
No-one cracked, but I do know who wrote the letter to the Stakepresidency.
I also have been informed that the IRS has now received over 500 pages of incriminating papers, mails, balancesheets and bank-statements.

So, the clock is ticking.

Well, I'm not sure if Fast Offerings are a scam or not, but this thread inspired me to ask my bishop for the name of a family to help for Christmas. We have a little more disposable income than in the past since I stopped paying tithing. Then the money can go straight to the family. So thanks for that.

Of course, after he messaged me the name of a family he followed up asking if I would like to declare my tithing settlement... Following in Corsair's footsteps, I am a full tithe payer this year!

azflyer wrote:I know a lot of good is done with Fast Offerings. I've seen it first hand. I also know that in the relatively affluent area where I lived, there just wasn't as much need. The extra contributions from the ward I was in helped support other wards that didn't collect enough in fast offerings to support the need they have in their ward. I'm completely OK with that.

I'd be OK with it IF there were financial transparency, and we actually knew that the church used all Fast Offerings to "help the needy."

But... Since the church seems to have something to hide, I'm not comfortable giving them ANY money any more. As long as they keep acting like a greedy corporation masquerading as a church, I'll give my money to charities with actual financial transparency.

I'm not denying that Fast Offerings do much good, but I think it could actually be better...

FWIW, my DH is a former long-time financial clerk and we don't really attend church anymore - and we still pay FO every month. DH believes in it, having personally seen it do good in our ward time after time. He says that if we have overages they go to other wards in the stake that need the help and if we have a shortfall we get helped in return. We don't pay anything else to the church, but we still pay fast offerings.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:24 pmI'd be OK with it IF there were financial transparency, and we actually knew that the church used all Fast Offerings to "help the needy."

I too long for more financial transparency from the church...

Keep in mind that fast offerings may be used to help the poor - but they are also used to either lure the poor into the Church or keep them there. It is not help that is given without an agenda.

Don't pay fast offerings - instead contribute to one of the many charities that help the needy without trying to get them to join or stay in a fraudulent Church.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:18 am Keep in mind that fast offerings may be used to help the poor - but they are also used to either lure the poor into the Church or keep them there. It is not help that is given without an agenda.

Don't pay fast offerings - instead contribute to one of the many charities that help the needy without trying to get them to join or stay in a fraudulent Church.

You can also ask the bishop if there is a need and he may give you a recommendation. Then you at least have transparency about where your $$ go, and you can do it with no strings attached. This is still my community and I want to help out when I can, so I like this method. My bishop has been pretty accommodating.