NOM

This is the sort of thing that really gets under my skin.

In Pres. Nelson's April Ensign article he makes the statement: "Without the Book of Mormon, there would be no gathering of Israel."

I just don't get how these guys can say this stuff. They took a 20 year old kid's word for it that he translated an ancient book and the story he tells is so full of holes it's actually embarrassing.

Then there's the fact that there's no Biblical mention of the necessity of having the BofM whatsoever. If anything the Bible warns against men who come up with cockeyed stories of why you should believe they're prophets.

For believers the gathering of Israel is Biblically well supported. And that gathering will take place inspite of phony men and their pseudo-scriptures. They are empty clouds that bring no rain. They read the Bible but they don't understand it.

Additionally Nelson throws in the big scary about how we need to prepare for the 2nd Coming. And the ONLY way to prepare for that is by being temple worthy.

What a sham.....

Rusty wrote: If there were no Book of Mormon, the promised gathering of Israel would not occur.

I can't help but think that it does not logically or rationally follow that if there is no Book of Mormon, there is no gathering of Israel, so I had to go see his justification for it. I know this may come as a surprise to all of you, but he offered no justification or explanation for the assertion. I'm the first to admit that my ignorance knows no bounds, but unless he can give more than this, I'm left to think he gave no explanation because the only explanation is that "Rusty says so."

Tangent - Here's a paragraph that chaps my hide more though:

Rusty wrote: The time is coming when those who do not obey the Lord will be separated from those who do (see Doctrine and Covenants 86:1–7). Our safest insurance is to continue to be worthy of admission to His holy house. The greatest gift you could give to the Lord is to keep yourself unspotted from the world, worthy to attend His holy house. His gift to you will be the peace and security of knowing that you are worthy to meet Him, whenever that time comes.

Red:
Kind of hate the leech for this one. My believing wife insists The Gospel™ brings her joy, yet she also claims to be suffering greatly because neither I nor our cubs believe in said Gospel™ anymore. I think she's miserable because of The Gospel™. Thanks for comforting the wife, he who cankers the steel of the blade of critical thinking for many a believer!

Green
Not that you could buy your way into heaven, but . . . ya' gotta buy your way into heaven, because
Tithing --> Temple --> Celestial Kingdom

Have I mentioned lately that no me gusta esta Iglesia?

annotatedbom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:37 pm
I can't help but think that it does not logically or rationally follow that if there is no Book of Mormon, there is no gathering of Israel, so I had to go see his justification for it. I know this may come as a surprise to all of you, but he offered no justification or explanation for the assertion.

My only conclusion is that Nelson thinks that the only entity capable of gathering Israel is the LDS church and thus if there were no church/BoM then the gathering wouldn't happen. It's a misguided leap of questionable logic.

It's akin to saying, "Don't worry God, we've got this."

I don't know how many times in the Old Testament God would say to Israel, "Stop what you're doing. I don't need your help. If you'll just stand back and show a little faith you'll see what I can accomplish without your help."

But Joseph Smith and those who have come after him have all bought into the idea that they are the only ones who can get this job done. And conveniently, as you noted, they want you to pay in order to be a part of the "big show".

The Savior will ever be in your debt for the great work you have accomplished.

Don't forget to look at these statements through the rock-in-the-hat, but which I mean replacing The Lord, His, Him, etc, with "the brethren." They make so much more sense that way:

The time is coming when those who do not obey the Brethren will be separated from those who do (see Doctrine and Covenants 86:1–7). Our safest insurance is to continue to be worthy of admission to their holy house. The greatest gift you could give to the Brethren is to keep yourself unspotted from the world, worthy to attend their holy house. Their gift to you will be the peace and security of knowing that you are worthy to meet them, whenever that time comes.

For that gathering to happen the Book of Mormon has to be accepted by the Lamanites and they must be converted. The preface says that's the purpose of the book. No gathering of Isreal is in sight, since the church leaders (and whoever wrote the DNA essay) can't even find those Lamanites. Well, they did have them clearly identified until ungodly science came along and messed that up.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:31 pm For that gathering to happen the Book of Mormon has to be accepted by the Lamanites and they must be converted. The preface says that's the purpose of the book. No gathering of Isreal is in sight, since the church leaders (and whoever wrote the DNA essay) can't even find those Lamanites. Well, they did have them clearly identified until ungodly science came along and messed that up.

Perhaps the Lamanites are wandering in the holy land of the Lost Ten Tribes.........

This April En-sun talk pisses me off for very personal reasons. There is a lot of damage in my family over the hurtful, shame-filled teachings that my DW was raised in. Now, when her uber-TBM mother reads this crap it sends her into mean mode and she breaks all the communication rules we have requested and hits my wife with guilt trips about the last days, thus triggering years of pain. Its like watching someone you love get sucker punched out of the blue by someone who claims to love them but really only loves the church.

There is a cruelty to Mormonism that you can't understand until you leave. The forever family teaching is not only paper-thin theology it is scary and hurtful.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:31 pm No gathering of Isreal is in sight, since the church leaders (and whoever wrote the DNA essay) can't even find those Lamanites. Well, they did have them clearly identified until ungodly science came along and messed that up.

I never really thought about the fact that having to back off the Lamanite thing meant having to acknowledge the gathering was not happening to the degree I was taught all my life. That is an interesting point...

Yobispo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:56 am There is a cruelty to Mormonism that you can't understand until you leave. The forever family teaching is not only paper-thin theology it is scary and hurtful.

This is 100% correct. My wife is extremely understanding even though she obviously is all in and on some level thinks I was led astray, but what her parents have done and said makes it perfectly clear that if she ever left that they would bring holy hell down on her... and she knows that whether or not she would ever admit it.

Palerider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:56 pm This is the sort of thing that really gets under my skin.

In Pres. Nelson's April Ensign article he makes the statement: "Without the Book of Mormon, there would be no gathering of Israel."

Wow! I can't believe Kirton and McConkie would let the CEO say such things! No, seriously, it puts the corporation at legal risk to let the CEO and board of Ds make any more direct truth claims like that. They have to keep it vague and watered down. I suppose by not saying any other context around that statement, it might be vague enough to pass legal liability. I think Monson did a pretty good job keeping the truth claims vague by saying things like "You can find out for yourself the truth of these things." Rather than "These things ARE true."

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:31 pm For that gathering to happen the Book of Mormon has to be accepted by the Lamanites and they must be converted. The preface says that's the purpose of the book.

This is the right interpretation. This is what he's thinking. From inside Mormonism, it seems theologically sound...

But if the Book of Mormon didn't exist, surely God wouldn't make the Lamanite conversion a prerequisite to the gathering of Israel.

Palerider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:56 pm This is the sort of thing that really gets under my skin.

In Pres. Nelson's April Ensign article he makes the statement: "Without the Book of Mormon, there would be no gathering of Israel."

I just don't get how these guys can say this stuff. They took a 20 year old kid's word for it that he translated an ancient book and the story he tells is so full of holes it's actually embarrassing.

Then there's the fact that there's no Biblical mention of the necessity of having the BofM whatsoever. If anything the Bible warns against men who come up with cockeyed stories of why you should believe they're prophets.

For believers the gathering of Israel is Biblically well supported. And that gathering will take place inspite of phony men and their pseudo-scriptures. They are empty clouds that bring no rain. They read the Bible but they don't understand it.

Additionally Nelson throws in the big scary about how we need to prepare for the 2nd Coming. And the ONLY way to prepare for that is by being temple worthy.

What a sham.....

A sham within a sham

Palerider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:56 pm In Pres. Nelson's April Ensign article he makes the statement: "Without the Book of Mormon, there would be no gathering of Israel."

Wonder what the Israeli authorities granting permission for the BYU center in Jerusalem would make of that idea? That whole idea of substitutionary Jews makes them nervous. They have already gathered and they do not want a peculiar bunch of goyim horning in on their act.

I doubt they would worry about Mormons invading the nation-state of Israel since they know that Mormons would be jumping into their SUVs and caravaning it to Missouri for the end of the world next millennia prepping experience.

Every once in a while something comes out to make a NOM realize just how stupid Mormonism really is. If Joseph had not written fiction about some imaginary people, God would be thwarted. And God is too stupid to figure out away around the BoM not existing? Really? What a weak pathetic God Rusty believes in. My God can do as he damn well pleases, and no lack of a book would stop him, even if said book WAS true.

R. M. Nelson:
"If there were no Book of Mormon, the promised gathering of Israel would not occur."

You know guys, awhile back I made a prediction that Nelson would say something really stupid between then and Conference now. I'm not sure if this is it or if he'll top himself before Conference is over. But in my book, this qualifies.

alas wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:04 am My God can do as he damn well pleases, and no lack of a book would stop him, even if said book WAS true.

So can mine. And he can do it while being tasty. He is no respecter of cook books. You can find him wherever you seek him, but these days please restrict yourself to drive-up.

A great majority of Mormons are very sheltered as far as perspective is concerned. They either fear or are apathetic to information outside of the "approved" sources of the Church. President Nelson's statement may be attributed to some combination of ignorance, hubris, carelessness, or duplicity. I wonder if anyone, a friend or peer would be brave enough to question him about it? Personally, I am skeptical of a literal gathering. I think it is more likely a great metaphor. In the earlier Church teachings some dramatic images of a "highway being cast up in the midst of the great deep" and smiting rocks, and ice flowing down are presented. See: D&C 133:26-36.

The literal physical gathering ship has sailed. There have been statements regarding such to explain why converts stay in their home countries now.

Henceforth all gatherings are spiritual only. The "back to Missouri" nonsense lives on only in the imaginations of the Julie Rowes and the Chad Daybells. SLC is the forever home of the kingdom.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:57 am The literal physical gathering ship has sailed. There have been statements regarding such to explain why converts stay in their home countries now.

Henceforth all gatherings are spiritual only. The "back to Missouri" nonsense lives on only in the imaginations of the Julie Rowes and the Chad Daybells. SLC is the forever home of the kingdom.

And now that gathering has been moved to "both sides of the veil." By the time they're done it will be entirely in an invisible world where we can't even look for any signs of it. Maybe the archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon also exists in such a world.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:57 am The literal physical gathering ship has sailed. There have been statements regarding such to explain why converts stay in their home countries now.

Henceforth all gatherings are spiritual only. The "back to Missouri" nonsense lives on only in the imaginations of the Julie Rowes and the Chad Daybells. SLC is the forever home of the kingdom.

I dunno about that. I'm pretty sure this isn't Julie or Chad, and I took the photo myself...