NOM

Just thought you guys might want to hear this.

I had occasion yesterday to sell my beloved pickup. I had to get a bigger one for some of the towing we do.

The guy who bought it happened to be a youngish (40's?) Navy Chaplin of the Baptist persuasion. He was familiar with my current city and so for want of a better place, we met at a nearby Mormon chapel we were both familiar with to show the vehicle.

When we arrived he stated that he didn't realize the church would have so many people in the parking lot and it must be a "church night". I said, the Mormons have tons of meetings all the time and then added, "I used to be one."

His ears perked up and I told him my story of leaving the faith and here's where it got interesting. He said, "You may not believe this but your story has become very familiar to me in the last five years."

He said, "I have frequent encounters with young Mormon men who have researched their history and have come to the conclusion that it is bogus and now they don't know who to talk to about it. It takes a heavy toll on them. I try to help them realize it's not the end of the world and that there are good alternatives out there and that they should at the least hold on to their faith in God and Christ and the Biblical Scripture. Most times they seem to come out of it well."

He was a really nice guy and we had a good talk. I enjoyed the conversation.

AND....he bought my truck for a good price.

That makes sense to me.

I wonder if he is noticing the same trends in other Christian denominations?

My view from the back of the chapel in my ward and the non-denominational church by my house, it is a sea of gray.

Raylan Givens wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:48 pm I wonder if he is noticing the same trends in other Christian denominations?

We (DH and I) recently talked to an Army Chaplin and he said it was mostly disillusioned Mormons he talked to. He was currently running a support group specifically for ex-/dissilusioned Mormons.

It was kind of a funny conversation. My DH is retired military and retired military have radar for other retired military. So, they got talking. After comparing assignments (my DH had joint assignments which are different branches of military working together.) and all the shop talk, he said something about working with sexual assault as part of his Chaplin work. My husband said something about my work experience and drug me over. So, then this semi retired (he still does volunteer stuff on an army base, and his ex-lds group was one thing he did) Chaplin talks exclusively to me, cause we have more in common that he did with DH and military. He asked something about where I had worked, and Utah comes up. So he asked about Mormon rape victims contrasted to other religions and amount of damage. Well, yeah in my experience Mormon rape victims are more damaged. So, he asked my theory about why, and I am starting to squirm because I never criticize the church in front of DH. Then I accidentally said something that anyone who knows exMormons would recognize as me being a nonbeliever and he REALLY zeroed in. Oh, we have an exMormon with real experience working with Mormon rape victims....got to have theories about what is wrong with Mormon teachings that rape victims come out more damaged. I am trying to avoid saying too much in front of TBM DH. Thank Spaghetti monster that the guide for our ATV ride called an end to lunch break then, and I got away from the dude before he asked more criticism of Mormons.

I understand. It is a struggle when you know how the sausage is made.

I like to ask really firm believers (someone like the Chaplain) how they know their church/belief is true (ala. Anthony Magnabosco). I try to be sincere and really listen, it is always interesting to hear the different responses I get.

Palerider,

Thanks for the OP. This is an interesting thread.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:37 pm He said, "I have frequent encounters with young Mormon men who have researched their history and have come to the conclusion that it is bogus and now they don't know who to talk to about it.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm We (DH and I) recently talked to an Army Chaplin and he said it was mostly disillusioned Mormons he talked to. He was currently running a support group specifically for ex-/dissilusioned Mormons.

Unless either of you would rather not share, roughly where are each of you (regionally even)? I'm trying to understand why these guys would see so many Mormons.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm My DH is retired military and retired military have radar for other retired military.

My guess is that your DH can see it in their countenance, you know, kind of like a spiritual light

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm Well, yeah in my experience Mormon rape victims are more damaged.

Any abuse is sad, especially rape, but it just seems that much more horrific to think a religion may be contributing to the suffering.

annotatedbom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:51 am Palerider,

Thanks for the OP. This is an interesting thread.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:37 pm He said, "I have frequent encounters with young Mormon men who have researched their history and have come to the conclusion that it is bogus and now they don't know who to talk to about it.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm We (DH and I) recently talked to an Army Chaplin and he said it was mostly disillusioned Mormons he talked to. He was currently running a support group specifically for ex-/dissilusioned Mormons.

Unless either of you would rather not share, roughly where are each of you (regionally even)? I'm trying to understand why these guys would see so many Mormons.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm My DH is retired military and retired military have radar for other retired military.

My guess is that your DH can see it in their countenance, you know, kind of like a spiritual light

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm Well, yeah in my experience Mormon rape victims are more damaged.

Any abuse is sad, especially rape, but it just seems that much more horrific to think a religion may be contributing to the suffering.

We were in Southern Utah when we talked to him and he was very much not local, but I either didn’t hear or don’t remember where he said he was living that he helps with the support group, but not along the Mormon corridor. But he talked like he had seen the disillusioned Mormons everywhere, but one specific he mentioned was that the stress of basic training was bringing out unresolved problems, so, he encountered it when he was working where ever Army basic training is, which is four or five different places, but not along the Mormon corridor. So, picture yourself as a 19 year old recruit away from home for the first time and you encounter something that shakes your testimony while in basic. They purposely make basic traumatic and put a faith crisis on top of that.

That's a fascinating story, Palerider. It makes me wonder if there is more than one answer. It makes me wonder about one's first time away from home. Mine was my mission to California. It was an eye-opening experience, at least for me. And there was lack of anyone to talk to about that experience and the doubts it brought. Why, because back then it seemed like doubts were something LDS didn't talk about. And sadly it's still that way.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:37 pm He said, "I try to help them realize it's not the end of the world and that there are good alternatives out there and that they should at the least hold on to their faith in God and Christ and the Biblical Scripture."

This is not unlike a TBM saying that you should hang on to your faith in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.

It is always easy to see how ridiculous others beliefs are but it is very difficult to critically examine your own.

alas wrote:

annotatedbom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:51 am Palerider,

Thanks for the OP. This is an interesting thread.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:37 pm He said, "I have frequent encounters with young Mormon men who have researched their history and have come to the conclusion that it is bogus and now they don't know who to talk to about it.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm We (DH and I) recently talked to an Army Chaplin and he said it was mostly disillusioned Mormons he talked to. He was currently running a support group specifically for ex-/dissilusioned Mormons.

Unless either of you would rather not share, roughly where are each of you (regionally even)? I'm trying to understand why these guys would see so many Mormons.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm My DH is retired military and retired military have radar for other retired military.

My guess is that your DH can see it in their countenance, you know, kind of like a spiritual light

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm Well, yeah in my experience Mormon rape victims are more damaged.

Any abuse is sad, especially rape, but it just seems that much more horrific to think a religion may be contributing to the suffering.

We were in Southern Utah when we talked to him and he was very much not local, but I either didn’t hear or don’t remember where he said he was living that he helps with the support group, but not along the Mormon corridor. But he talked like he had seen the disillusioned Mormons everywhere, but one specific he mentioned was that the stress of basic training was bringing out unresolved problems, so, he encountered it when he was working where ever Army basic training is, which is four or five different places, but not along the Mormon corridor. So, picture yourself as a 19 year old recruit away from home for the first time and you encounter something that shakes your testimony while in basic. They purposely make basic traumatic and put a faith crisis on top of that.

I can confirm that this basic training experience is certainly trying to young 17-18 year olds in the testimony area. One story that comes to mind is how we had 2 mormons in our platoon and the other guy decided to go AWOL. This brought immediate scrutiny to me and the Drill Sergeant kept asking me about how this could happen if mormons are so dedicated and religious. I had to shrug my shoulders admit to him that we weren't any different or special than others. I felt horribly guilty for saying that when it should have been one of those testimony building experiences defending my religion in the face of scrutiny. Guess I have had NOM tendencies since the beginning.

In another case fellow trainees rightly questioned the BOM origin story and content. I was pre-mission age and had no good responses.

They did like to attend our services on Sundays though because we got 2 hours away instead of the 1 hour the protestants had. Most of us slept through sacrament services.

annotatedbom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:51 am Palerider,

Thanks for the OP. This is an interesting thread.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:37 pm He said, "I have frequent encounters with young Mormon men who have researched their history and have come to the conclusion that it is bogus and now they don't know who to talk to about it.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm We (DH and I) recently talked to an Army Chaplin and he said it was mostly disillusioned Mormons he talked to. He was currently running a support group specifically for ex-/dissilusioned Mormons.

Unless either of you would rather not share, roughly where are each of you (regionally even)? I'm trying to understand why these guys would see so many Mormons

I'm currently in Southern California (for the winter) where I met this Chaplin, but I had the feeling he had travelled extensively with some tours on Naval vessels in the Gulf and other places. He wasn't specific about where he had run into these guys. It seemed like it could have happened anywhere.