NOM

I'm listening to Consig's latest podcast about BoM translation. He asked a question that I was amazed had totally escaped me until now

Why didn't Joseph use the seer stone to find the lost 116 pages?

He could use it to find the pin that Martin Harris used for a toothpick. He saw a feather buried several feet under the ground at a remote location. He was able to describe details about a faraway farm. Why couldn't he use it for something that was critically important?

I will hazard an apologetic response to my own question. God told Joseph twice not to let Martin take the pages. He finally said "uncle" and gave permission after Joseph wouldn't stop twisting his arm. God would not power up the stone for Joseph in this particular case because he wanted to teach him a lesson. After all, he did put another version of the Lehi story at the back of the plates for just such a contingency.

God can't get enough of making a point and rubbing it in. Remember how he let untold numbers of Israelites suffer and die for not giving him the attention he felt he deserved? And then their descendants for not believing in Jesus?

I've heard that before and it's the striking observation there is about the 116 pages.

Not only did the Lost 116 pages give Joseph the *perfect* chance to prove he was a prophet by retranslating them, but it also gave him the chance to use the stone to locate them and go get them.

He claimed to be able to see the 'gold plates' with the stone when he hid them in the log... yet he couldn't locate an actual item?

That was a fantastic podcast by RFM which I highly recommend to everyone - he brought up great points and really dismantles how the church's teachings have changed over the last 20 years. https://radiofreemormon.org/2020/02/rad ... on-part-1/

A (completely non-comprehensive) list of useful things the seer stone could have shown Joseph Smith but didn't:

• How do you feel about being tarred and feathered? Stay away from the Johnson farm. And their daughter.

• One day you might be tempted to start a bank. Don't.

• No matter how good Fanny Alger looks, whatever you do, don't take her to the barn. Emma will catch you if you do.

• Umm...those Egyptian scrolls you bought weren't really written by Abraham. You might want to not claim they were.

• Hey, don't trust John C. Bennett.

• Here are some clear instructions on how to practice polygamy so the future Church won't have to say you weren't given clear instructions on how to practice polygamy.

• You might want to avoid Carthage Illinois. And if anyone ever prints a paper that criticizes you, probably best to just leave it alone.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52 am A (completely non-comprehensive) list of useful things the seer stone could have shown Joseph Smith but didn't:

• How do you feel about being tarred and feathered? Stay away from the Johnson farm. And their daughter.

• One day you might be tempted to start a bank. Don't.

• No matter how good Fanny Alger looks, whatever you do, don't take her to the barn. Emma will catch you if you do.

• Umm...those Egyptian scrolls you bought weren't really written by Abraham. You might want to not claim they were.

• Hey, don't trust John C. Bennett.

• Here are some clear instructions on how to practice polygamy so the future Church won't have to say you weren't given clear instructions on how to practice polygamy.

• You might want to avoid Carthage Illinois. And if anyone ever prints a paper that criticizes you, probably best to just leave it alone.

Right on Not Buying it. A couple more:

• If people tell you to look at some plates from Kinderhook, ignore them. The plates are fake.
  
  • You should leave for the Rocky Mountains by May 1844 at the latest!

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:52 am God can't get enough of making a point and rubbing it in. Remember how he let untold numbers of Israelites suffer and die for not giving him the attention he felt he deserved? And then their descendants for not believing in Jesus?

And why the hell does god keep letting those archaeologists dig more fossil evidence out of the ground to support a 4.5 billion year old earth and the evolution of life? Is he also letting Satan inspire people with new technologies like DNA sequencing? What kind of sick game is this for those who want to believe in religion? I guess the game we played with our kids, encouraging them to believe in Santa Clause, is akin to the game god plays with those that are expected to believe in him. The difference is that religion expects you to believe it your whole life instead of waking up to the facts someday and evolving past it.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52 am A (completely non-comprehensive) list of useful things the seer stone could have shown Joseph Smith but didn't:

• How do you feel about being tarred and feathered? Stay away from the Johnson farm. And their daughter.

• One day you might be tempted to start a bank. Don't.

• No matter how good Fanny Alger looks, whatever you do, don't take her to the barn. Emma will catch you if you do.

• Umm...those Egyptian scrolls you bought weren't really written by Abraham. You might want to not claim they were.

• Hey, don't trust John C. Bennett.

• Here are some clear instructions on how to practice polygamy so the future Church won't have to say you weren't given clear instructions on how to practice polygamy.

• You might want to avoid Carthage Illinois. And if anyone ever prints a paper that criticizes you, probably best to just leave it alone.

Here are some legit health codes to live by.

SPOILER ALERT!!!

(Just kidding.)


Ah yes, the Magic Rock™. One of my favorite "Anti-MORmON" subjects. I have heard the finding of the 116 pages idea. There are probably countless other things that the Magic Rock™ could have been used for that could prove LD$-Inc. slightly more true than it actually is. (As many of you have already mentioned.)

My favorite question I would like to ask a believer is: Why has LD$-Inc. done almost everything in their power to keep Joe's Magic Rock™ hidden for almost 200 years? Isn't the Magic Rock™ literally the most important religious artifact on earth when it comes to MORmONism? It is the religious artifact that created the "Most correct book on earth," isn't it? The fact that LD$-Inc. doesn't parade the Magic Rock™ around, showing it off speaks volumes to me. (It seems they are actually embarrassed about it.)

I also wonder why all the seers who followed Joe haven't used the Magic Rock™? Why is Joe the only one who gets magic Elohim channeling toys to play with? Why don't the other seers get their own Magic Rock™ since they can't figure out where the on/off switch is for Joe's?

Or... Maybe it was actually the HAT that was magic, and the rock was just a prop?


Silly questions that I obviously think about too much, and type out repetitively over and over on the internet...

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:52 am I'm listening to Consig's latest podcast about BoM translation. He asked a question that I was amazed had totally escaped me until now

Why didn't Joseph use the seer stone to find the lost 116 pages?

He could use it to find the pin that Martin Harris used for a toothpick. He saw a feather buried several feet under the ground at a remote location. He was able to describe details about a faraway farm. Why couldn't he use it for something that was critically important?

This reminds me of a story of when Joseph had left his family for a time and was back with his parents in Palmyra, I believe.

He needed money for transportation back to where Emma was so his mother took up a collection in the neighborhood basically begging for money to help him get back to Pennsylvania.

When approached for money, one of Lucy's neighbors, asked what the money was to be used for. Lucy explained that Joseph needed desperately to go back and check on the welfare of his family and had no money.

The neighbor, knowing of Joseph's glass looking and treasure hunting stone said, " Why doesn't he just look at his stone if he wants to know how his family is doing?"

Lucy was dumbfounded into silence by the question.

Obviously the neighbor declined to contribute.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:58 pm [

Or... Maybe it was actually the HAT that was magic, and the rock was just a prop?

Yeah, remember when he put it on that snowman?

The seer stone question is just putting the Saints on the hot seat, in terms of their folklore, because we all realize the seer stone can not actually locate anything.

Yeah, remember when he put it on that snowman?

The white stovepipe hat and the banded iron jaspar stone made for a right jolly snowman.

Oh that's how he lost the real U&T. Snowman eyes. Was there by any chance a carrot hidden in Cumorah too?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:52 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:58 pmOr... Maybe it was actually the HAT that was magic, and the rock was just a prop?

Yeah, remember when he put it on that snowman?

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:19 pmThe seer stone question is just putting the Saints on the hot seat, in terms of their folklore, because we all realize the seer stone can not actually locate anything.

Yeah, remember when he put it on that snowman?

The white stovepipe hat and the banded iron jaspar stone made for a right jolly snowman.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:22 pmOh that's how he lost the real U&T. Snowman eyes. Was there by any chance a carrot hidden in Cumorah too?

Oh, man... My (kind of?) unintentional thread-jack has become... Well...


♫ ♫ There must have been some magic in that old white hat Joe found... ♫ ♫

It's funny as heck, even if it is a threadjack. Definitely brightened my morning.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52 am A (completely non-comprehensive) list of useful things the seer stone could have shown Joseph Smith but didn't:

This was an excellent list. It could have been continued into the future for continuing leadership if it worked:

• "Brigham, tell the stake president in Cedar City to calm the f*$#^% down and don't murder the Fancher Party"
• "John Taylor, that 1886 plural marriage revelation either needs to be published in general conference or you need to halt plural marriage."
• "Wilford, seriously, stop plural marriage"
• "Lorenzo, good heavens you are 57 years old. You do not need to marry 15 year old Sarah Jensen. It just looks bad. Also, hire a good financial comptroller and here's how to not lose church property."
• "Joseph F, you are about to get grilled by the U.S. Senate. You should come up with some good answers."
• "Heber, do not ordain that polygamy wannabe Richard Lyman to be an apostle. Also, Hitler and Nazis are bad."
• "George, get some medication take a break."
• "David, seriously give the priesthood to people of African descent. Tell Joseph Fielding and Bruce McConkie to shut the f*$#^% up and let's put the LDS church on the right side of history."
• "Joseph Fielding, shut the f*$#^% up with your Doctrines of Salvation. You cannot believe how much trouble that will cause in the future."
• "Spencer, that Miracle of Forgiveness book will be a stain on your legacy and cause endless, unneeded suffering on members of the church. Tone it waaaaaaay down or toss it. Also, have Mark Hoffmann arrested."
• "Ezra, shut the f*$#^% up about your conspiracy theories. Do you realize how much trouble your pre-1970 conference talks will turn out to be?"
• "Howard, actually you seem like a decent chap. Look into that internet thing."
• "Gordon, Howard did not look into that internet thing. You need to do so and get some good answers to LDS history onto a decent website."
• "Thomas, warn Jeff Holland that the BBC is about to ask some really pointed questions that will lead to a long series of hilarious missteps."
• "Nelson, Wendy violates the 'half your age plus 7 rule'. Can you seriously not date women who are younger than your daughter?"

Corsair wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:10 am

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52 am A (completely non-comprehensive) list of useful things the seer stone could have shown Joseph Smith but didn't:

This was an excellent list. It could have been continued into the future for continuing leadership if it worked:

• "Brigham, tell the stake president in Cedar City to calm the f*$#^% down and don't murder the Fancher Party"
• "John Taylor, that 1886 plural marriage revelation either needs to be published in general conference or you need to halt plural marriage."
• "Wilford, seriously, stop plural marriage"
• "Lorenzo, good heavens you are 57 years old. You do not need to marry 15 year old Sarah Jensen. It just looks bad. Also, hire a good financial comptroller and here's how to not lose church property."
• "Joseph F, you are about to get grilled by the U.S. Senate. You should come up with some good answers."
• "Heber, do not ordain that polygamy wannabe Richard Lyman to be an apostle. Also, Hitler and Nazis are bad."
• "George, get some medication take a break."
• "David, seriously give the priesthood to people of African descent. Tell Joseph Fielding and Bruce McConkie to shut the f*$#^% up and let's put the LDS church on the right side of history."
• "Joseph Fielding, shut the f*$#^% up with your Doctrines of Salvation. You cannot believe how much trouble that will cause in the future."
• "Spencer, that Miracle of Forgiveness book will be a stain on your legacy and cause endless, unneeded suffering on members of the church. Tone it waaaaaaay down or toss it. Also, have Mark Hoffmann arrested."
• "Ezra, shut the f*$#^% up about your conspiracy theories. Do you realize how much trouble your pre-1970 conference talks will turn out to be?"
• "Howard, actually you seem like a decent chap. Look into that internet thing."
• "Gordon, Howard did not look into that internet thing. You need to do so and get some good answers to LDS history onto a decent website."
• "Thomas, warn Jeff Holland that the BBC is about to ask some really pointed questions that will lead to a long series of hilarious missteps."
• "Nelson, Wendy violates the 'half your age plus 7 rule'. Can you seriously not date women who are younger than your daughter?"

I sustain Elder Cor F Sair as Prophet, Seer and Revelator.

Corsair wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:10 am

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52 am A (completely non-comprehensive) list of useful things the seer stone could have shown Joseph Smith but didn't:

This was an excellent list. It could have been continued into the future for continuing leadership if it worked:

• "Brigham, tell the stake president in Cedar City to calm the f*$#^% down and don't murder the Fancher Party"
• "John Taylor, that 1886 plural marriage revelation either needs to be published in general conference or you need to halt plural marriage."
• "Wilford, seriously, stop plural marriage"
• "Lorenzo, good heavens you are 57 years old. You do not need to marry 15 year old Sarah Jensen. It just looks bad. Also, hire a good financial comptroller and here's how to not lose church property."
• "Joseph F, you are about to get grilled by the U.S. Senate. You should come up with some good answers."
• "Heber, do not ordain that polygamy wannabe Richard Lyman to be an apostle. Also, Hitler and Nazis are bad."
• "George, get some medication take a break."
• "David, seriously give the priesthood to people of African descent. Tell Joseph Fielding and Bruce McConkie to shut the f*$#^% up and let's put the LDS church on the right side of history."
• "Joseph Fielding, shut the f*$#^% up with your Doctrines of Salvation. You cannot believe how much trouble that will cause in the future."
• "Spencer, that Miracle of Forgiveness book will be a stain on your legacy and cause endless, unneeded suffering on members of the church. Tone it waaaaaaay down or toss it. Also, have Mark Hoffmann arrested."
• "Ezra, shut the f*$#^% up about your conspiracy theories. Do you realize how much trouble your pre-1970 conference talks will turn out to be?"
• "Howard, actually you seem like a decent chap. Look into that internet thing."
• "Gordon, Howard did not look into that internet thing. You need to do so and get some good answers to LDS history onto a decent website."
• "Thomas, warn Jeff Holland that the BBC is about to ask some really pointed questions that will lead to a long series of hilarious missteps."
• "Nelson, Wendy violates the 'half your age plus 7 rule'. Can you seriously not date women who are younger than your daughter?"

Ha! This really highlights all the needless tomfoolery our prophets, seers and revelators have been involved in over the years which they could have avoided if they were what they claim to be.

“Howard, don’t fall down at the BYU devotional.”

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:38 am “Howard, don’t fall down at the BYU devotional.”

That was one of the weirdest things I ever saw. Hunter just vanished and the camera switches to a further back camera to show the whole stage. I swear I briefly saw his feet fly up as he fell back. Then suddenly Packer was there to hold up Hunter and Hunter just resumes his talk like nothing had happened.

The magic rock could have identified Paul H Dunn as a liar and fraud

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:34 am

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:11 am

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52 am A (completely non-comprehensive) list of useful things the seer stone could have shown Joseph Smith but didn't:

• How do you feel about being tarred and feathered? Stay away from the Johnson farm. And their daughter.

• One day you might be tempted to start a bank. Don't.

• No matter how good Fanny Alger looks, whatever you do, don't take her to the barn. Emma will catch you if you do.

• Umm...those Egyptian scrolls you bought weren't really written by Abraham. You might want to not claim they were.

• Hey, don't trust John C. Bennett.

• Here are some clear instructions on how to practice polygamy so the future Church won't have to say you weren't given clear instructions on how to practice polygamy.

• You might want to avoid Carthage Illinois. And if anyone ever prints a paper that criticizes you, probably best to just leave it alone.

Right on Not Buying it. A couple more:

• If people tell you to look at some plates from Kinderhook, ignore them. The plates are fake.
  
  • You should leave for the Rocky Mountains by May 1844 at the latest!

BOIL THE WATER!