NOM

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/11/03/ ... nt-needed/

...408 of the survey’s 605 total respondents self-identified as Latter-day Saints of some stripe. The 338 “very active” Mormons were the least likely to call for more transparency from churches...

Yeah, who needs transparency in any form? We all know non-disclosure leads to honest, forthright, appropriate, righteous intent and actions.

Greater transparency just means more opportunities to find out you have dedicated your life to a crappy corporation.

blazerb wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:17 pm Greater transparency just means more opportunities to find out you have dedicated your life to a crappy corporation.

Yeah, but the answer you will get is, "it's God's money and you are demonstrating your faithlessness by questioning what happens with it after it leaves your bank account." It's like bragging about a good deed; it negates the heaven-points you would have earned by giving without hesitation.

I read most of the article and it is not surprising. Ryan McKnight seemed optimistic as 1/3 of the TBMs still want more transparency.

2bizE wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:38 pm I read most of the article and it is not surprising. Ryan McKnight seemed optimistic as 1/3 of the TBMs still want more transparency.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with what anybody wants. Transparency will only happen if the church is forced to do it, which doesn't seem likely to happen in the foreseeable future. The question TBMs need to ask themselves is why is the church so intent on keeping the finances secret, but they are currently too occupied with trying to find inspirational reasons for the secret $100 Billion charity-that-provides-no-charity while the poorest among them deprive their children to put more money in the coffers.

Perhaps being more active gives one reason to not have any misdeeds exposed. Exposure might lead to uncomfortable change.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:44 pm

2bizE wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:38 pm I read most of the article and it is not surprising. Ryan McKnight seemed optimistic as 1/3 of the TBMs still want more transparency.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with what anybody wants. Transparency will only happen if the church is forced to do it, which doesn't seem likely to happen in the foreseeable future. The question TBMs need to ask themselves is why is the church so intent on keeping the finances secret, but they are currently too occupied with trying to find inspirational reasons for the secret $100 Billion charity-that-provides-no-charity while the poorest among them deprive their children to put more money in the coffers.

I agree Hagoth. Suppose the survey showed that 100% of all people in Utah wanted more transparency with churches. The church still wouldn’t do anything to be more transparent. The church will only do what it wants.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:44 pm

2bizE wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:38 pm I read most of the article and it is not surprising. Ryan McKnight seemed optimistic as 1/3 of the TBMs still want more transparency.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with what anybody wants. Transparency will only happen if the church is forced to do it, which doesn't seem likely to happen in the foreseeable future. The question TBMs need to ask themselves is why is the church so intent on keeping the finances secret, but they are currently too occupied with trying to find inspirational reasons for the secret $100 Billion charity-that-provides-no-charity while the poorest among them deprive their children to put more money in the coffers.

One question is, who can force the church to be more transparent? Of course the government could by requiring churches to file reports like other charities are required to. Hypothetically, the members could demand more transparency. If a large fraction of the active membership withheld donations until reports were made, I think SLC would do it after ex'ing a few folks and waiting a while to make sure they could say that the change had nothing to do with the rebellion. However, the article seems to indicate that the more active the member, the less they want to know. Also, with $124 billion plus whatever the for-profit side of the church brings in, the church could probably let most active members walk and still maintain business as usual. I don't think a member revolt would succeed.

blazerb wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:58 pm One question is, who can force the church to be more transparent?

Not God, apparently. He doesn't want people to know how rich he is.

Interesting. I have heard it said that transparency isn't about building trust, but about managing distrust. This seems to fit. The more blind trust they put in the organization, the less they care about transparency.

For the sake of the many good members I know I wish that trust was warranted.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:12 pm

blazerb wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:58 pm One question is, who can force the church to be more transparent?

Not God, apparently. He doesn't want people to know how rich he is.

I find it sad - or maybe ironic - that a God-believing Church hierarchy fear publicity more than God, and that they love their riches (money and assets) more than they love God and the poor and needy.

The Book of Mormon really damns the current leadership, but they don't have eyes to see it.

The reality is the very TBM people are mesmerized by Jedi Mind tricks. "You do not see $124 Billion in that slush fund. Move along."

I think the fund makes them feel more secure. The people they trust the most have the means to support the organization they trust the most. Allowing outsiders to peek behind the curtain would erode that feeling of security.

Reuben wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:36 am I think the fund makes them feel more secure. The people they trust the most have the means to support the organization they trust the most. Allowing outsiders to peek behind the curtain would erode that feeling of security.

I think we really only have anecdotal evidence of how the $124B fund is impacting members.

From what I've seen, the older members think it's a sign that the church knows what it's doing and is setup to fight Satan when the time comes.

For the younger members, I've seen more of them say that tithing isn't a necessary thing if they're sitting on that kind of money.

I can't talk to my wife about it, but I know she's read all of the church's statements and Des News articles and I am 100% sure she is more than satisfied by them.