NOM

I read a discussion on another blog about the sacrament. I was reminded that according to D$C: 20:58 it states, “But neither teachers nor deacons have authority to baptize, administer the sacrament, or lay on hands;”
So, what exactly do Deacons do when it comes to the sacrament? If they don’t administer the sacrament, what word is used instead?
Why would females not be allowed to pass the sacrament? I was also reminded that some YM can pass the sacrament.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/10 ... mon-girls/

I predict in the historic April 2020 Conference, females will be allowed to assist in some way with the sacrament.

They could have the girls work to prep everything. Good training for them. Teach them to know their place is in the kitchen getting everything ready for the men to do the big, important stuff.

2bizE wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:44 pm I predict in the historic April 2020 Conference, females will be allowed to assist in some way with the sacrament.

My old TBM self asked my McConkie’ite mother about this nearly 8 years ago. There appears to be no scriptural authority against women preparing, blessing, and passing the sacrament. The sacrament prayer is just that, a prayer. Can’t a no priesthood holder say the prayer over something? My mother of course thought it was preposterous...

This is worth a read:

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/view ... imwjournal

2bizE wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:44 pmSo, what exactly do Deacons do when it comes to the sacrament? If they don’t administer the sacrament, what word is used instead?

Deacons can only "pass" the sacrament.

I guess "administer" means: "Moving a white sheet aside, breaking stale Wonder-Bread into small pieces, saying a magical incantation to change that "stuff" into demi-god flesh and blood, handing trays of demi-god flesh and blood to underling deacons, then receiving the same trays a few minutes later from said underlings.

I think 2bizE's prediction is fascinating. If President Nelson were to rise to the status of one who changes the future of the Church as Pres. Kimball did in 1978, he would have to do something like give women the priesthood or lift the ban on LGBT people. Two hour church is fine, but 50 years from now who will care?

nibbler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:23 pm This is worth a read:

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/view ... imwjournal

This is fascinating. I’ve read this before, but this is likely the genesis of the white church shirt/uniform, and maybe the roadshow.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:18 pm
Deacons can only pass the sacrament.

Actually, I would agree with this. Technically the priests administer the sacrament. The deacons and priests are doing the menial prep and passing.

But that's the TBM point of view.

In reality the church has perverted the sacrament by eliminating the use of "fruit of the vine" which carries heavy symbolism for the blood of Christ. Joseph's revelation stating that it doesn't matter what you use, it's the thought that counts is a "revelation" of convenience.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:18 pm ...saying a magical incantation to change that "stuff" into demi-god flesh and blood...

That's exactly what it is. If it wasn't magic - if it was really a prayer - it would be perfectly fine to get a few words wrong or even restate it in your own words. But nope, if you get even one word wrong you break the spell and are publicly humiliated by having to do it over until you get it right. Just like Ronald Weasley.

2bizE wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:21 pm

nibbler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:23 pm This is worth a read:

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/view ... imwjournal

This is fascinating. I’ve read this before, but this is likely the genesis of the white church shirt/uniform, and maybe the roadshow.

I appreciated the mention of kneeling. When I was a kid my dad told me that when he was growing up in Southern Utah they used to kneel for the sacrament. Also that the older men held both hands over their head when they prayed. That was a shock to my testimony as a seriously orthodox youngster. How could such fundamental practices vary, even in the slightest, with time and place?

I began passing the sacrament in the last year of the McKay presidency and I don't recall any pressure at all about wearing white shirts. I don't think ties were even strictly required, although we all wore cheap clip-ons. Of course, that was in the day when we had a prophet who liked to wear a white suit (heresy!)

The priests used to kneel at the sacrament table and raise their right arm to the square (like with a baptism) when blessing the sacrament. That was done away with several years ago. Not sure why. Funny how the 16 (now 15) year old priest makes temple signs without even knowing what they are.