NOM

I am a believer in miracles. Some aren’t.

But i see far more evidence that satan is in firm control of the world and is constantly working anti-miracles. Aka orchastrating seemingly irrational or insane outcomes that could not occur without some kind of malign divine intervention.

If their isn't proof of god, there is plenty of proof his opposite thrives.

iwanttotalk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:40 pmBut i see far more evidence that satan is in firm control of the world and is constantly working anti-miracles. Aka orchastrating seemingly irrational or insane outcomes that could not occur without some kind of malign divine intervention.

If their isn't proof of god, there is plenty of proof his opposite thrives.

Proof of "the opposite of god" such as?

That one sock that always disappears.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:54 pm

iwanttotalk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:40 pmBut i see far more evidence that satan is in firm control of the world and is constantly working anti-miracles. Aka orchastrating seemingly irrational or insane outcomes that could not occur without some kind of malign divine intervention.

If their isn't proof of god, there is plenty of proof his opposite thrives.

Proof of "the opposite of god" such as?

Maybe evil?

Some people don't care for the label. But I've heard numerous people who are either atheist or agnostic say that they do believe that "evil" exists. Most law enforcement people believe in evil. They get a close up view of it.

Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:01 am

wtfluff wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:54 pm

iwanttotalk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:40 pmBut i see far more evidence that satan is in firm control of the world and is constantly working anti-miracles. Aka orchastrating seemingly irrational or insane outcomes that could not occur without some kind of malign divine intervention.

If their isn't proof of god, there is plenty of proof his opposite thrives.

Proof of "the opposite of god" such as?

Maybe evil?

Some people don't care for the label. But I've heard numerous people who are either atheist or agnostic say that they do believe that "evil" exists. Most law enforcement people believe in evil. They get a close up view of it.

Yeah, for some reason I'd doubt that agnostics or atheists would blame "evil" on an invisible boogey-man. Human beings are unreliable things, they are completely capable of both good an evil in and of themselves.

How do you define an "anti-miracle"? Next, how do you tell the difference between an anti-miracle caused by the devil (in whatever form you want to use), some human being being being a jerk, or random coincidence?

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:03 am How do you define an "anti-miracle"? Next, how do you tell the difference between an anti-miracle caused by the devil (in whatever form you want to use), some human being being being a jerk, or random coincidence?

Ever watched the movie zoolander? It is perhaps the most sophisticated movie ever made.

You see if god creates things one way, Satan would invert that. Like two opposite facing pyramids or the star of david. Opposite components of divinity which corrospondingly act in inversions of the other.

So if you watched the show chernoble. The smartest people in the soviet union were the coal miners. Thats why they were made coal miners. The most sychophantic yes men were put in charge and made powerful and rich even though they were imbeciles. It was the inversion of proper society.

If the devil were in charge. The virtious would be labeled sinners. The sinners presented as saints the worst in charge and the best suppressed and the valuable squandered and the invaluable made excessively wealthy.

In the show everyone worships derick zoolander as the height of male beauty (he is ugly) he is made wealthy (he is worthless) he is respected (he deserves none) he is famous because he is vacuos. Except derick zoolander isnt a character he is the male gaze. He is how the director sees the audience.the audience laughs at themselves being made fun of. Only the straight men of the film are aware of this. They are the coal miners and grounds keepers.

How does that inversion take place? Well in chernobly it argues the universal acceptance of a lie. Only coal miners (and super powered women!!!!! Get the iodine!!!!! Yeah feminism!!!! Womens are better than men!!!!!) spoke truth. In zoolander they argue that it is the dual outcome of extreme stupidity in the masses and heavy use of propganda by the intelligent. (Childrens working rights!!! Look how happy they are working in the factory!!!)

But neither escape the condemnation of inversion which becomes so top heavy it collapses on itself. And how does this inversion occur? “I will send them a strong delusion so that they may believe a lie” the consiquence of unrighteousness is the devil taking control, creating inversions then harvesting the wicked. Thats litterally what happens.

I suppose Satanists could point to the anti-miracle of the perfect phone call to Ukraine.

Sorry, but I'm not following you.

I haven't seen Chernobyl, so I don't get the reference. I have seen Zoolander, but your description doesn't really fit with the movie, so I'm not following your reasoning.

Can you provide some real life examples of what you consider an anti-miracle? You say that it is going on in the world, show us what some are.

iwanttotalk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:40 pm I am a believer in miracles. Some aren’t.

But i see far more evidence that satan is in firm control of the world and is constantly working anti-miracles. Aka orchastrating seemingly irrational or insane outcomes that could not occur without some kind of malign divine intervention.

If their isn't proof of god, there is plenty of proof his opposite thrives.

I agree with you.

I was always taught that Satan is powerless in this world--just as he cannot create, he cannot force. So I can see the idea that Satan is busy planting bad ideas in folks but really--why did that chunk of concrete fall off that building? And right when a kind, generous person is passing beneath?

One things Latter-day Saints want is some control over their lives. They can control their eternal outcomes with obedience and strict adherence to the church but they have no why of explaining bad luck. If I'm in control of my eternal destiny and current blessings through obedience then why do bad things happen? Someone must be doing something...hmmmmm...Satan?

Since no one can give an example of an "anti-miracle" let me take a stab:

You're driving. You're in a hurry. It rains like hell and you are forced to slow down and you end up missing your temple session! Dang Satan.

A teenager is driving too fast, goes wide in a turn and kills a prominent citizen who is simply taking out the trash.

Your ring comes off your finger. You feel and see it fall. You can never find it...even with prayer...

A child gets cancer. Who's that on?

Sh*t happens.--doesn't mean Satan has control in the physical world it simply means that sometimes you suffer for no reason.

Brent wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:14 pm I was always taught that Satan is powerless in this world--just as he cannot create, he cannot force. So I can see the idea that Satan is busy planting bad ideas in folks but really--why did that chunk of concrete fall off that building? And right when a kind, generous person is passing beneath?

One things Latter-day Saints want is some control over their lives. They can control their eternal outcomes with obedience and strict adherence to the church but they have no why of explaining bad luck. If I'm in control of my eternal destiny and current blessings through obedience then why do bad things happen? Someone must be doing something...hmmmmm...Satan?

Since no one can give an example of an "anti-miracle" let me take a stab:

You're driving. You're in a hurry. It rains like hell and you are forced to slow down and you end up missing your temple session! Dang Satan.

A teenager is driving too fast, goes wide in a turn and kills a prominent citizen who is simply taking out the trash.

Your ring comes off your finger. You feel and see it fall. You can never find it...even with prayer...

A child gets cancer. Who's that on?

Sh*t happens.--doesn't mean Satan has control in the physical world it simply means that sometimes you suffer for no reason.

Secret combinations, master mahan, kill for gain, make a covenant that they can do whatever they want and not get in trouble for it. A confederacy to seize and maintain control.

Im not gonna give you the oaths and covenants one makes with satan to become a satanic high priest.

LDS doctrine question:

Does Satan have the power to create?

Can Satan control objects on the earthly plane?

This would be one of those anti-miracles. It was Utah Senator Mike Lee making a point in front of the Senate, with an all too Utah picture showing Ronald Reagan shooting a machine gun while the Velociraptor he is riding carries the American flag. The painting was from one of those Book of Mormon stories, I think. Probably in the original 116 pages.

Brent wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:48 am LDS doctrine question:

Does Satan have the power to create?

Can Satan control objects on the earthly plane?

Ouija boards, dude.
I remember when I was a kid our bishop read a letter from the 1st Presidency announcing that the use of Ouija boards is forbidden because they are controlled by the devil. For some reason I thought he was talking about these things:

I assumed that those who could balance on them (I couldn't) were being rewarded for their servitude to Satan.