NOM

So until I read Anon70's comment on another thread, I had no idea. (Hooray for not watching conference!) Apparently, Sabbath observance is added to TR questions.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:16 pm Beach. But I had to conference earlier with the DH. And the new recommend question about keeping the sabbath holy is probably gonna come up later. I tried to forestall it by saying we all get to decide for ourselves how to keep it holy for ourselves but I don’t think that’s gonna fly after Nelson’s changes. I’m so sick of sitting on this fence.

Yes to all that. My husband is fairly relaxed, as far as active mormons go, but he holds to those stupid TR questions.

The changes are pretty small, but for the most part are all about adding control...

#5 Old: Do you live the law of chastity?

#5 New: The Lord has said that all things are to be “done in cleanliness” before him (Doctrine and Covenants 42:41). Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior? Do you obey the law of chastity?

So that adds thought police to your actual actions... awesome.

#7 Old: Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#7 New: Do you support or promote any teachings, practices or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

This is probably a good change for those in mixed faith marriages so that you don't have to talk about family members that found out the church is a fraud...but not that much different really.

#8 Old: Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

#8 New: Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

That's to make sure that you're not taking advantage of 2 hour church and thinking you can do something that isn't for the church because we can't have that.

#11 Old: Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

#11 New: Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?

This is likely for those who think that iced coffee is OK since it is OK under the word of wisdom... or those evil 'cino drinks.

#13 Old: If you have previously received your temple endowment: 1) Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? 2) Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

#13 New: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?

They're not giving up that kind of control and obedience anytime soon.

Anyone who expected they'd relax on the WoW was kidding themselves... this is pretty much the same thing except they've tweaked a few words and added a few extra elements of control. YEA FOR MODERN DAY REVELATION, Y'ALL!

Thanks for doing putting this in detail, jfro18. Clarified it for me, and I think you're absolutely correct about the control part. Once you start prying into my personal thoughts, we have some problems. My next TR interview is going to be even more interesting than I first thought.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm...
#7 Old: Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#7 New: Do you support or promote any teachings, practices or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
'''

Well... I guess my answer to this one of: "YES. Just like Jesus did!" Will still work?



Funny how the re-wording on most all of these basically changes... Nothing.

But you know, Rusty mush have had a hallucination, uh, I mean dream, or something...

wtfluff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:49 pm

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm...
#7 Old: Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#7 New: Do you support or promote any teachings, practices or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
'''

Well... I guess my answer to this one of: "YES. Just like Jesus did!" Will still work?
Funny how the re-wording on most all of these basically changes... Nothing.

But you know, Rusty mush have had a hallucination, uh, I mean dream, or something...

This is the one question that worries me - so if I disagree with a teaching, practice or doctrine, am I going to have a problem? Like do I have to agree with polygamy, for example? Oh, the thought police or going to be out in force.

Giving up a recommend solves so many stupid problems.

Then it creates new ones like missing weddings!

The control is strong obi-wan.

More fuel for the clusterf...

That’s how I took the changes too-more control over our thoughts now and tightened up Sundays and WOW. It’s exhausting.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm#13 Old: If you have previously received your temple endowment: 1) Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? 2) Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

#13 New: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?

At least they will no longer be spreading the lie that people made a covenant in the temple to wear their garments.

Also, changing "garment" to "temple garment" sounds like a potential for it truly being a "temple garment" instead of "at home and work and everywhere else we tell you to wear it" garment. Or, maybe someone realized that garment simply means "article of clothing"?

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm #11 Old: Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

#11 New: Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?

This is likely for those who think that iced coffee is OK since it is OK under the word of wisdom... or those evil 'cino drinks.

I understand that the WoW encourages the use of mild barley drinks. Too bad the thought of drinking beer turns my stomach. Heck, if we decide that JS understood and obeyed the WoW we can drink wine, whiskey, and all sorts of stuff.

Question 16: Do you have an anonymous Reddit account where you badmouth church leaders?

Definitely, understanding the Word of Wisdom (not the current LDS hierarchical understanding of it) would lead to more freedom in regards to it.

No to hot drinks, yes to mild barley drinks, plus it is not a commandment at all, so doesn't need to be obeyed as if it were one.

2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:34 pm Question 16: Do you have an anonymous Reddit account where you badmouth church leaders?

Yep.

Random wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:35 pm Definitely, understanding the Word of Wisdom (not the current LDS hierarchical understanding of it) would lead to more freedom in regards to it.

No to hot drinks, yes to mild barley drinks, plus it is not a commandment at all, so doesn't need to be obeyed as if it were one.

Answer: Yes, I understand and obey the WoW as the Lord has defined in D&C 89.

Random wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:35 pm Definitely, understanding the Word of Wisdom (not the current LDS hierarchical understanding of it) would lead to more freedom in regards to it.

No to hot drinks, yes to mild barley drinks, plus it is not a commandment at all, so doesn't need to be obeyed as if it were one.

Exactly!

The question shouldn't be "Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?"

It should be "Do Mormon leaders understand the Word of Wisdom?"

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:09 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:49 pm

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm...
#7 Old: Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#7 New: Do you support or promote any teachings, practices or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
'''

Well... I guess my answer to this one of: "YES. Just like Jesus did!" Will still work?
Funny how the re-wording on most all of these basically changes... Nothing.

But you know, Rusty mush have had a hallucination, uh, I mean dream, or something...

This is the one question that worries me - so if I disagree with a teaching, practice or doctrine, am I going to have a problem? Like do I have to agree with polygamy, for example? Oh, the thought police or going to be out in force.

Well Mr. Smith(s), the actual wording of the question is: "Support or Promote." Don't support polygamy? You're good. Don't promote polygamy? You're good. Disagree with polygamy? Yeah, you're still good.

Here's what your Bishop and Presidente de Steak want to hear when they ask that question: No. All you gotta do is say that twice when "answering" and ZING! You'll get your golden ticket.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:14 pm Giving up a recommend solves so many stupid problems.

Then it creates new ones like missing weddings!

The control is strong obi-wan.

But I love how it solves the problems it solves. That classic quote from the 80s movie WarGames is applicable here:

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play"

I am not worried for me cause it has been years since I played that game. But the question about do you support anything contrary to the teachings of the church. Well, spouseman supports our daughter’s marriage and our niece’s marriage to their wives. When gay marriage became legal in California, we encouraged our daughter to marry. Seriously, we drove our daughter and partner to California and were the witnesses and then drove them home. That qualifies as support. Big time support.

Spouseman used one GA statement that support of gay marriage was not a TR issue. But now it certainly sounds like it. He *supports* gay marriage even though sometimes he tries to pretend otherwise around church folk. I hope he keeps things in different categories in his brain. That question refers to the current practice of polygamy. Not gay marriage.

I am not sure if either bishop knows about our daughter as he hardly knows either (we are snowbirds and the bishops prefer that we transfer records every 6 months, rather than keep them where we are not) I wouldn’t recognize either bishop if I tripped over them. But if they know about our daughter, will they ask questions?

And as to the keeping the Sabbath holy, well, he has justified that as putting his inactive wife/daughters/grandchildren above church. But the wrong bishop is going to want him to set a better example, because “in our hearts” we apostates really know we should keep the Sabbath holy.

Life just got harder for our spouses too, fellow NOMs.

2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:34 pm Question 16: Do you have an anonymous Reddit account where you badmouth church leaders?

Nope, no Redit account. Just an anonymous NOM account, and a public Facebook account where I do my badmouthing.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm #13 Old: If you have previously received your temple endowment: 1) Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? 2) Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

#13 New: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?

The temple doesn't instruct anyone to wear the garment "night and day." The wording is "throughout your life."

The new #13 allows members in the know to sleep naked and wear the garment only on Sundays to keep nosy people from nosing. RR might have stayed if this change had been rolled out earlier.