NOM

It’s a matter of time before women will be given the priesthood!

The hardliners probably think the church is officially in apostasy.

TBM’s everywhere are patting themselves on the back congratulating themselves or continued revelation.

http://www.ldsliving.com/President-Nels ... es/s/91687

What does this really matter?

I'm not trying to diminish it... just honestly not sure what this matters?

They can witness it but they still can't perform it... so what does this really do but provide some lipstick on the fact that they are lesser than a 12 year old boy?

It's progress, but isn't it all cosmetic?

A couple days before Conference, just like the "reversal" of the Pox. Trying to get some good PR prior to conference. I think we can probably see the 304 days before any conference as being the time for their "revelations" to be announced.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:38 am What does this really matter?

I'm not trying to diminish it... just honestly not sure what this matters?

They can witness it but they still can't perform it... so what does this really do but provide some lipstick on the fact that they are lesser than a 12 year old boy?

It's progress, but isn't it all cosmetic?

Of course it’s cosmetic! But it opens the door to a hell of a lot of other things the church SHOULD already be doing!

It’s also fodder for the old school guard to see the church is in apostasy!

The more stupid they do the more stupid they look! It shows just how crazy the church is. That in 2019, they finally let women “watch” to ensure a child goes completely under water!

Nelson is causing so much cog dis with my extended family that I hardly have to point out the church problems anymore.

I love this guy!

Please, please, please get rid of the garments now!

And for gods sake, let the mothers at least HOLD their baby in the baby blessing circle!

Thank you Aunt Wendy!

and Aunt Sheri!

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:54 am And for gods sake, let the mothers at least HOLD their baby in the baby blessing circle!

Hey now! We can't have the lady-folk diluting all that righteous male mojo.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:53 am

jfro18 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:38 am What does this really matter?

I'm not trying to diminish it... just honestly not sure what this matters?

They can witness it but they still can't perform it... so what does this really do but provide some lipstick on the fact that they are lesser than a 12 year old boy?

It's progress, but isn't it all cosmetic?

Of course it’s cosmetic! But it opens the door to a hell of a lot of other things the church SHOULD already be doing!

It’s also fodder for the old school guard to see the church is in apostasy!

The more stupid they do the more stupid they look! It shows just how crazy the church is. That in 2019, they finally let women “watch” to ensure a child goes completely under water!

Nelson is causing so much cog dis with my extended family that I hardly have to point out the church problems anymore.

I love this guy!

Please, please, please get rid of the garments now!

This is exactly how I feel. Of course it's stupid in 2019 that women can now make sure that baptisms are done properly. Of course it's eventually going to lead to women having the priesthood - in 2075.

But it's the cog dis, the wonderful cog dis. It actually led to a discussion between one of my feminist kids and Sis M about women and the priesthood, and Sis M did not fare well in that particular discussion, and I'm sure I'll pay for it later. But hearing her try to defend an old, white, conservative position that SHE HERSELF doesn't really buy, was hilarious as I stifled my loud laughter and tried not to jump in, albeit unsuccessfully.

And I agree, I hope Nelson lives to be 100. He's the bomb.

MoPag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:03 am Thank you Aunt Wendy!

and Aunt Sheri!

I think their influence on Nelson is real. I think there's a lot to this.

MoPag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:03 am Thank you Aunt Wendy!

and Aunt Sheri!

Ha ha ha ha. Ha!

She’s been whispering something in his ear at night! Ruuuuuuuselll, Russsssssssel, this is God.... listen up my prophet duuuuuuuude....you need to allow women to witness baptisms, bless the sick, and chooooooioose their own underwear!

I'm not sure I think there is a lot of cog dis about any of President Nelson's announcements, any more than they is cog dis that "Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia." Whatever the Prophet says goes, and I'm not sure most members put much more thought into it than that. Never underestimate the amount of doublethink most believing members can tolerate.

Most members who are susceptible to cog dis joined the ranks of the disaffected a long time ago.

P.S. <<Yawn>> Another insignificant change from President Nelson to make members feel like they live in a time of amazing revelations. Who cares? I'm not impressed by dumb administrative changes, if you want to impress me do something amazing like your prophet counterparts in the scriptures did all the freakin' time.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:30 am

MoPag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:03 am Thank you Aunt Wendy!

and Aunt Sheri!

I think their influence on Nelson is real. I think there's a lot to this.

I am having a vision of Wendy whispering in Rusty's ear at night when he is asleep. Soon after he wakes up, grabs his lighted pen and asks that Wendy leave the room.

The scary part is I'm not sure this is not happening. That really would explain A LOT!

I don't think this will cause much cogdis to anyone who isn't already questioning... and it doesn't appear they are calling it revelation (yet) so I think it's easily brushed off as the leaders recognizing women more...

I am assuming DW will find this to be a happy change and it will keep her retrenched, which is what the endgame is after all, right?

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's a change that really does absolutely nothing but it sure sounds good, so there's nothing to lose in the church doing it.

Will the older generation hate it because it goes against what they grew up with? Sure, but they'll be gone soon and the younger generation is leaving in big enough numbers that they can't worry about the old, retrenched people with ancient ideas about blacks being cursed and women being property.

I think it's great. The curious thing to me is that women are never specifically mentioned. Children are, but not women. I mean, that's really the story here, right?

1-Any member holding a current temple recommend, including a limited-use recommend, may serve as a witness to a proxy baptism.

2-Any endowed member with a current temple recommend may serve as a witness to a living or proxy sealing.

3-Any baptized member of the Church, including children and youth, may serve as a witness to the baptism of a living person.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:21 am I think it's great. The curious thing to me is that women are never specifically mentioned. Children are, but not women. I mean, that's really the story here, right?

1-Any member holding a current temple recommend, including a limited-use recommend, may serve as a witness to a proxy baptism.

2-Any endowed member with a current temple recommend may serve as a witness to a living or proxy sealing.

3-Any baptized member of the Church, including children and youth, may serve as a witness to the baptism of a living person.

And, again, lumps everyone into an “other” category. So it’s Men and everyone else. I’m sick of being lumped in with 8yo girls and now 8 yo girls and boys and up.

Will women acquire the priesthood so gently and in such tiny steps that they won't even be aware of the point where they cross the line between having and not having? Then someday when another series of uprisings occurs the leadership will just say, "what are you talking about, you've had the priesthood all along, you just haven't been magnifying it. Your fault, not ours."

I can recognize this is a positive step, although, one that should have happened a long time ago. I am a little bit sad about it. The whole, "women can hand out towels" thing has been an inside joke between DW and I for some time. She is now fully convinced that all is well in Zion and that equality reigns anew.

Mixed pros and cons I guess.

As a professional, my wife handles and manages projects that range in the hundreds of millions of dollars in cost. She has many people who are accountable to her for their performance. I'm hesitant to say that because it might sound like braggadocios. Or she might think it's no one's business, which it isn't. I'm not really comfortable bringing it up.

The only reason I do is because it makes my point that, well......I'm just not sure she could handle being an accurate witness to a baptism. It's traditionally been the great and heavy responsibility only of the righteous holders of God's Holy Priesthood. It is a singular privilege that should be approached with all gravitas. It is not a job for flunkies.

This move by RMN gives me great, great pause......

jfro18 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:06 am I don't think this will cause much cogdis to anyone who isn't already questioning... and it doesn't appear they are calling it revelation (yet) so I think it's easily brushed off as the leaders recognizing women more...

I am assuming DW will find this to be a happy change and it will keep her retrenched, which is what the endgame is after all, right?

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's a change that really does absolutely nothing but it sure sounds good, so there's nothing to lose in the church doing it.

Will the older generation hate it because it goes against what they grew up with? Sure, but they'll be gone soon and the younger generation is leaving in big enough numbers that they can't worry about the old, retrenched people with ancient ideas about blacks being cursed and women being property.

Maybe as one of the few people on the board with millennial/generation Z kids, I have a bird's eye view of how the cog dis works on them, and not so much on the more older, conservative titanium-shelved Sis. M. So you're not wrong that some people will just double down on "what a wonderful prophet we have!" while the younger generation can see through the BS. And NONE of my kids are questioning their "testimony," and would be shocked to be called disaffected members - they just think that these are old white dudes, and change will eventually come. ALL my kids think that women should get the priesthood, they just don't get worked up about it, and that completely shocks their mother. And they have all come to this conclusion independent of any discussion from me, which is the odd thing. Even Sis M can't understand it. And some of their friends think this way too. Now, maybe because we live in the more liberal Great White North the anecdotal evidence is skewered, but Jana Riess's research in her book The Next Mormons seems to point that way also. It's actually quite fascinating to see this generational battle play out in real time.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:23 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:21 am I think it's great. The curious thing to me is that women are never specifically mentioned. Children are, but not women. I mean, that's really the story here, right?

1-Any member holding a current temple recommend, including a limited-use recommend, may serve as a witness to a proxy baptism.

2-Any endowed member with a current temple recommend may serve as a witness to a living or proxy sealing.

3-Any baptized member of the Church, including children and youth, may serve as a witness to the baptism of a living person.

And, again, lumps everyone into an “other” category. So it’s Men and everyone else. I’m sick of being lumped in with 8yo girls and now 8 yo girls and boys and up.

Yeah, I have a sibling who reacted the same way to this. It's definitely a problem.