NOM

https://www.courthousenews.com/scathing ... on-church/

"Scathing Lawsuit Seeks Punitive Damages From Mormon Church"

SALT LAKE CITY (CN) — A federal lawsuit sure to get attention in Utah claims that the “Mormon Corporate Empire” has driven worshipers to existential crises, suicide, anxiety and depression by peddling a “scheme of lies” centered on the religion’s creation and its scriptures, a onetime member claims.

Laura Gaddy on Monday filed a scathing, 75-page class action against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Represented by Salt Lake City attorney Kay Burningham, Gaddy claims the church, which claimed 16 million members worldwide in 2018, twisted “the foundational history of Mormonism” in a “fraudulent scheme perpetrated for generations.”

I remember Kay Burningham from an exMormon conference I went to years ago. She talked then about her desire to file a lawsuit against the church and has written this book:

An American Fraud. One Lawyer's Case against Mormonism
https://www.amazon.com/American-Fraud-L ... 217&sr=8-1

This will be interesting to watch and will be some bad press for the church and church leaders. My gut tells me it won't be any more successful than Tom Phillips attempt a few years ago.



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AllieOop wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:29 am This will be interesting to watch and will be some bad press for the church and church leaders. My gut tells me it won't be any more successful than Tom Phillips attempt a few years ago.

Agreed. Fun to watch, but I wouldn't expect anything to come out of it.

The fact they filed in SLC leads to a high likely hood that the case will get thrown out due to backroom pressure. I would have thought it would be better to file in California or Colorado. Unless they are in it for the long game of appeals due to conflicts of interest.

Just checked out Kay Burninghams book or at least the free sample of it , she really goes after all the fraud and gaslighting from the church. I can see why she is filling the lawsuit , she seems very passionate about all the deception the church has perpetuated for decades. I hope it gets some press coverage to show the world how deceptive and manipulative the church is !!!!!!

AllieOop wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:29 amThis will be interesting to watch and will be some bad press for the church and church leaders. My gut tells me it won't be any more successful than Tom Phillips attempt a few years ago.

One of Tom's problems is that he didn't just stick to trying to refute the claims of MORmONism, he took it back to biblical claims, and attacked all of Christianity.

From the extremely tiny snippets I've seen of Kay's case, she is sticking to just the claims of MORmONism (as in the incorrect narrative of the Book of Mormon "translation" process.)


That being said, I'm just as skeptical as the rest of you about how "successful" this will be. It will be "fun" to watch. Hopefully it will expose some things to the general public though...

I watch enough attorney shows on TV which leads me to believe that this case has no merits simply based on the fact people pay money to the church in return for intangible religious benefits.

Judge Judy: How long have you paid tithing to the Mormon Church?

RR: since I was 3.

JJ: and did you ever question where your money was going?

RR: no, because the prophets testified in general conference that I would be spiritually blessed for following the Lords....

JJ: Mr. Ryder, why didn’t you request to see the financials of your church!?

RR: uhhhhhhh? They weren’t avail....

JJ: SHUT UP! Listen to me... why would ANYONE GIVE MONEY TO AN ORGANIZATION when they don’t provide access to their financials?

RR: uhhh?

JJ: Case dismissed, Mr. Ryder I suggest you be smarter next time and think about where you invest your time, talents, money, and everything the Lord has and will bless you with to not be suckered into building up a fake kingdom of God on earth.

JJ: sheesh, can you believe these people Byrd? Use our brains people. Don’t give money or time to fake god organizations!

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:08 am I watch enough attorney shows on TV which leads me to believe that this case has no merits simply based on the fact people pay money to the church in return for intangible religious benefits.

For argument sake, what about tithes paid before LDS Inc. added that statement to their tithing slips?

If this actually goes anywhere by some miracle, can you image the class action lawsuit from all the ex-mo's wanting their money back? We would be talking billions of dollars at stake. I suspect that the church would mysteriously loose the records from the time periods in question.

This is very interesting. I can hear millions of voices saying "they can leave it but they can't leave it alone." There's also something about Satan in there but I can't quite make it out.

What I would love to see is a trial focused on the Book of Abraham as a metric for whether or not the church is deceptive in the stories it trades for billions of dollars annually.

I don’t think it matters before or after the tithing slip disclaimer. A quick google search comes up when this:

To even begin to weigh your possible odds of prevailing on such a potential lawsuit, an experienced lawyer would need to review with you, in great detail, many of the most intimate details of your personal, family, romantic, religious, and professional life. To have any realistic chance of prevailing, you'd have to overcome the very strong presumption that adults -- at least all adults who haven't been held legally incompetent by a court -- are responsible for their own voluntary actions and decisions, even when they later have compelling reasons to regret or second-guess them. You'd effectively have to show that this church was so overwhelming intrusive into every function of your life and all of your decision-making that you effectively did become legally incompetent, at least while under its influence.

Almost any species of fraud claim requires the defrauded party to plead and prove that he was *reasonable* in relying on the defendant's promises and representations. What's "reasonable reliance" in the context of relationships between churches and their congregations is very much subject to debate, but judges and juries are going to be very, very reluctant to second-guess "donations" after the fact.

I know we often talk about the church’s ability to effectively keep the members infantile, but to the point of legally incompetent? Probably not.

Of course, tithing is just one element of this class action suit.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:41 amI know we often talk about the church’s ability to effectively keep the members infantile, but to the point of legally incompetent? Probably not.

I'd have no problem whatsoever testifying that the MORmON part of my brain is completely legally incompetent.

Yeah, I know, it wouldn't work in a court of law... ... (Sometimes you just gotta laugh... So you don't cry.)

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:08 am JJ: SHUT UP! Listen to me... why would ANYONE GIVE MONEY TO AN ORGANIZATION when they don’t provide access to their financials?

RR: uhhh?

JJ: Case dismissed, Mr. Ryder I suggest you be smarter next time and think about where you invest your time, talents, money, and everything the Lord has and will bless you with to not be suckered into building up a fake kingdom of God on earth.

I'm laughing and crying at this. I don't know how to feel.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:54 am One of Tom's problems is that he didn't just stick to trying to refute the claims of MORmONism, he took it back to biblical claims, and attacked all of Christianity.

From the extremely tiny snippets I've seen of Kay's case, she is sticking to just the claims of MORmONism (as in the incorrect narrative of the Book of Mormon "translation" process.)

I agree regarding your assessment of what Tom did....it was frustrating.

Kay Burningham is one sharp lady (my impression from hearing her speak and then reading about her more online) and her book is supposed to be excellent. I'm reading that she has been planning this case for 10 years and that this complaint is a summary of her book. (Well thought out and thorough.)

I'm still not very hopeful that it'll be successful (the lawsuit), but I'm not real sure what her goal is. Maybe it's just to educate and expose.


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Filing a lawsuit against the Church in Salt Lake City???! Good thing it is not 1859 or Porter Rockwell would see to it they were not around the next day. In 2019, it simply equates to an exercise in futility.

moksha wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:08 am Filing a lawsuit against the Church in Salt Lake City???! Good thing it is not 1859 or Porter Rockwell would see to it they were not around the next day. In 2019, it simply equates to an exercise in futility.

Ha! True.

I do wonder why she didn't file the lawsuit in California (she's a licensed attorney in both states)...they'd have a better chance at getting an unbiased judge. But then, logistically it does make sense to file in Utah because of who they are suing.



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AllieOop wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:29 am My gut tells me it won't be any more successful than Tom Phillips attempt a few years ago.

Yep. I seriously doubt anything will come of it.

I smell coffee!!

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:54 am

AllieOop wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:29 amThis will be interesting to watch and will be some bad press for the church and church leaders. My gut tells me it won't be any more successful than Tom Phillips attempt a few years ago.

One of Tom's problems is that he didn't just stick to trying to refute the claims of MORmONism, he took it back to biblical claims, and attacked all of Christianity.

From the extremely tiny snippets I've seen of Kay's case, she is sticking to just the claims of MORmONism (as in the incorrect narrative of the Book of Mormon "translation" process.)


That being said, I'm just as skeptical as the rest of you about how "successful" this will be. It will be "fun" to watch. Hopefully it will expose some things to the general public though...

As for me and my house, we are rooting for and supporting David as he takes on Goliath. Er....Kay as SHE takes on GOLIATH.

I found her website and she has a form where you can request more info which I did. Here's the link.

https://clients.kayburningham.com/?q=contact&r=class

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:08 am I watch enough attorney shows on TV which leads me to believe that this case has no merits simply based on the fact people pay money to the church in return for intangible religious benefits.

Judge Judy: How long have you paid tithing to the Mormon Church?

RR: since I was 3.

JJ: and did you ever question where your money was going?

RR: no, because the prophets testified in general conference that I would be spiritually blessed for following the Lords....

JJ: Mr. Ryder, why didn’t you request to see the financials of your church!?

RR: uhhhhhhh? They weren’t avail....

JJ: SHUT UP! Listen to me... why would ANYONE GIVE MONEY TO AN ORGANIZATION when they don’t provide access to their financials?

RR: uhhh?

JJ: Case dismissed, Mr. Ryder I suggest you be smarter next time and think about where you invest your time, talents, money, and everything the Lord has and will bless you with to not be suckered into building up a fake kingdom of God on earth.

JJ: sheesh, can you believe these people Byrd? Use our brains people. Don’t give money or time to fake god organizations!

I hear what you're saying RR, but certainly "buyer beware" doesn't extend into fraud.

I have to be blunt - this is a stupid lawsuit and a horrible waste of the court's time. Suing over a failure to realize intangible religious benefits, even if you were induced to disgorge real money for them, is a non-starter. Moreover, on the fraud front, there would have to be overwhelming evidence that the Church knew, or should have known, that it was inducing such disgorgement of funds based on information it KNEW was false. Mind you, not just interpreted differently, but outright knew the information was both false and material to the decision making of its victims. Most of the items we like to gripe about around here fall squarely within the realm of "grey areas"...just look at the apologetic nonsense; it's very easy to come up with, at least, a possible (if not plausible) explanation for many of the things that are problematic. Unless discovery could uncover a conspiratorial communication amongst a group of members of the FP and Q12 which plainly shows they are INTENTIONALLY using FALSE information to induce victims into turning over hard-earned cash, this goes nowhere in a hurry. Frankly, our courts are full of enough frivolous lawsuits that adding one more, even for PR reasons, is just another bit of harm heaped upon the people trying to navigate their way through the courts with their legitimate grievances.