alas wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:31 pm
What ocean going boats are like. Consider the Jaredite barges. There is just so much wrong with that story.
How fast a population grows.
This opens up such a massive line of problems and it's one of those things I never thought of until I mentally snapped to look at the church's history.
The math is just awful when you look at what they claimed they were doing with the limited people they had.
The Letter For My Wife section on the Jaredite barges really outlines just how nonsensical it was.
And the Book of Mormon using such literal events from the Bible (Tower of Babel, flood, etc) is a massive problem.
With regards to math - I had this written up a while back and I'm sure it can be beefed up or explained in more detail (there was a fun discussion on reddit about a year ago that really dug into this):
In 2 Nephi 5, we have the story that a temple was built in the first 20 years in the New World. "And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine."
At this point there are at most 50-53 people who have already split into two groups, with one half to two thirds of this group women and children, who would likely not be sent to work on building temples. That leaves just 8-10 men to build a temple! For contrast, the Bible tells us that 183,000 people worked on Solomon's Temple for 7.5 years. There is absolutely no way that 8-10 men could build any kind of temple in such a short time, let alone in exceedingly fine workmanship. The math just does not add up.
Nephi also says that "And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us." Again, the amount of people needed to create swords without any technology is beyond what was available. This would require not just the material, but iron and steel forges, which would have also left evidence for us to know it happened. In addition, you can't just make a sword on a whim- you need to find ore, smelt the ore, make tools to shape the smelted ore, the knowledge of how to smelt the ore so that it is strong and durable, and know which materials are strong and which ones will break. Yet we are told that Nephi was able to make these swords with a small group of people that have never made swords before. I realize the apologists would proclaim that God can make miracles happen, but there is no mention of God providing the swords or the temples. FAIR mentioned that the swords are probably much more primitive than Laban's, but that does not match the Book of Mormon's own words.
In Jacob chapter 2 it has been about 56 years since Lehi left Jerusalem. He is about 45-50 years old and is upset at the white Nephites and calls them worse than the Lamanites as the rich Nephites have become arrogant and proud about their wealth and they have “gold, silver, and all manner of precious ores." Those that have more are proud and mistreat the poor and they like to wear “costly apparel."
At this point we've had just two generations since leaving Jerusalem. Because the groups have split, we are talking of a group that consists of about three dozen people. Considering again that many are women and children, does it make any sense that they would have the time or motivation to search for gold, silver, and precious ores? The Book of Mormon states that they are the only people on the entire land - what good would precious ores do? They would be focused on making cooking pots, storage for gathering, or materials for shelter.
With such a small group, the priorities would be hunting, water, and shelter. But in the Book of Mormon they are already talking about "costly apparel," which implies there are multiple levels of clothing to distinguish between normal and costly apparel. Again, the amount of work that goes into creating clothing is large, and the idea that there would be multiple levels of clothing being produced is silly. This is compounded by the idea that the rich Nephites are trading gold, silver, and precious ores for the clothing which would have no value in an uninhabited world.
The math doesn't add up for any of this to be happening, but in the terms of Joseph Smith's lifetime it makes sense you would do this, which is why it is in the Book of Mormon.
