NOM

So at this point, clearly my net handle and my avatar are indicators that I'm a bit of a Morrissey fan. A huge Morrissey fan actually.

Well, at least I was.

While a wonderful lyricist and musician, he's also a bit of an arrogant sort, with a particular world view that has evolved from supporting young, working-class angst, to fully embracing an older, conservative, white nationalistic angst. While I've always shrugged off Morrissey's more controversial rants on immigration as embracing his Irish working class roots, it's clearly more than that now with his embrace of a alt-right party, the For Britain movement. Which brings me to a question - how much can you still love something or someone that has "betrayed" you in some way, or now that you see them for what they really are? I've heard some Morrissey fans call for a boycott of his latest album, which I have to admit, I have bought. I've been waiting for this 1960s/70s cover album for years, and songs by Canadian icons Joni Mitchell and Buffy Ste. Marie? Please. I'm not supporting terrorism, I just bought a friggin' CD.

But.

I feel bad about it. I feel bad about supporting someone with rather abhorrent, bigoted views. While I actually love California Sun as a musical treat of 60s/70s protest songs, I can't separate anymore his problematic political views from his music. And I just don't enjoy it as I should.

I'm sure you can see where this is headed - it's the same with how I feel, and how many of you feel, about the church. I know what the corporation is now, as I clearly see the authoritarian control, the problematic history, the homophobia, the misogyny, the anti-intellectualism, and it makes me similarly angsty and sad. I'm simply not a fan anymore. And I feel the same about my support for a challenging institution, financial or otherwise, as I do about buying the new Morrissey album. While I try to console myself that my participation is for the family, and I'm doing my best to change it from the inside, I still don't feel entirely comfortable with my level of involvement. And given the fact that no one in my family is on the verge of leaving, it seems that this is going to be my lot for the next several years. And I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to handle it.

I was intrigued by Morrissey being called the "Oswald Mosley of Pop". So much so, that I had to google Oswald Mosley to understand the reference.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:45 pm I was intrigued by Morrissey being called the "Oswald Mosley of Pop". So much so, that I had to google Oswald Mosley to understand the reference.

Not a very flattering reference, was it? Morrissey's gone from singing negatively about the National Front Disco, to having music you can PLAY in a National Front Disco. It's very sad, that we've lost our boy.

For me I'll always love the early Smith's content (not Lucy and her brood!). I served in Manchester 83-85 and the Smith's are part of my love for that city. Morrissey I have not followed much post Smith's. It's hard for me to fault the guy for how he was then vs. now; I would have hoped he would have evolved more altruistic, but money and fame have ruined many an artist and it's hard to tell what truly shapes people over time. Looking at your assessment I'm glad I lost interest in Morrissey and didn't follow him closely enough to be invested in his later years. Maybe it's kind of like a movie being much better if you never read the book.

Unlike the church, Morrissey never directly deceived me, never directly solicited me for money. Unlike TSCC, the few dollars I did spent on Morrissey's products have brought me much happiness and I don't feel like I was duped. Unlike TSCC Morrissey's music was never trying to indoctrinate me into believing a false narrative in order to keep me part of a tribe and tell me how to live my life. It was just him expressing himself, maybe preaching at times, but all bands do that.

You shut your mouth, how can you say, that I go about things the wrong way?
I am human and I need to be loved, just like everybody else does

I would hope he still believes those words.

Your post reminds me of my feelings toward BYU football. As a TBM I loved BYU and I loved football. I grew up in the shadow of the Y mountain and BYU football greats like Ty Detmer, Steve Sarkisian, Luke Staley and Brandon Doman. Then I had a faith transition and I just can't support the team in the same way. I still follow BYU football and attend an occasional game, but with some disgust in the back of my mind as I do so. But I can't stop the excitement that wells up when they are doing well. It's conflicting. It is a good way to connect with my family of BYU supporters though.

A side note - I gave Morrissey a listen because of your posts, thanks for helping me expand my music horizons.

As a teen, I was a big fan of the Osmond family singers, who are about my age. I always thought Donny Osmond was the coolest, and that he was very "woke" and hip. ( LOL). As an adult, I even went to see Donny and Marie in Las Vegas, and they put on an excellent rock 'n roll revival show, full of middle age/senior citizen fans.

But, some of the Osmond family are very far right-wing, and extremely homophobic, making very strong comments against gay people. Even Donny, who considers himself something of a liberal, spends a great deal of time proselytizing for the church on social media. Recently he has made it known that he is actually not a NOM type, but full-blown TBM. He is constantly giving a very hard sell about the church to his fans. I started to realize that part of the money he earned from selling music and concert tickets to his fans, was being tithed directly to the church; and in the face of the church's stand against women's rights, gay rights, trans rights, etc., I just felt that I couldn't support that any more.

This topic always raises the question : Is it necessary to agree with the politics of the artist in order to be a fan of the artist's product? My response is that it's not necessary to agree with an artist's political viewpoint, unless he/she uses that viewpoint to sell the music and to attract followers and raise money for causes that I find harmful -- i.e, white supremacy, denial of gay rights, women's rights, etc.

It's kind of sad to find out unpleasant truths about an artist that one used to love, and it feels kind of like breaking up a relationship. I think the key to feeling better about the break-up is to look for new music and new artists to like-- remembering that there are lots of great talents and great performers out there who would love share their music and performance skills. JMO -- Wndr.

As humans we tend to see our idols and roll models with rose colored glasses. Whether they be musicians, athletes, performers, politicians, scientists, historical figures, etc, we tend to only see the good stuff about them that fits our paradigm. The tint of these glasses can grow with time, to the point where when we have trouble accepting any thing that doesn't fir our paradigm. We forget that they are human just like we are and have their own foibles and darker sides.

We often criticize TBMs for their blind devotion to JSJ and the current leadership and we have major cognitive dissonance when they are presented with uncomfortable facts, but we all do that to some degree.

The question them becomes does the accomplishments of that person and their impact on the world make up for their darker sides? It's a very personal thing to consider.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:18 am As humans we tend to see our idols and roll models with rose colored glasses. Whether they be musicians, athletes, performers, politicians, scientists, historical figures, etc, we tend to only see the good stuff about them that fits our paradigm. The tint of these glasses can grow with time, to the point where when we have trouble accepting any thing that doesn't fir our paradigm. We forget that they are human just like we are and have their own foibles and darker sides.

Absolutely, and that's why my Morrissey crisis has mirrored my faith crisis. Both have sucked large, although I have learned a lot from both!

I've always loved The Smiths. Took my son when Morrissey was at the U about a year ago.

This makes me sad, I didn't know he embraced the alt-right ideologies.

Johnny Marr is one hell of a good guitar player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ykv0wWqeJs