NOM

A sneak peak of the first chapter of the next Saints book is out.

Chapter 1 (lds.org)

I've only read part of it so far, and it definitely feels light and fluffy, much like the first book.

jfro18, I'm looking forward to you analysis!

I don't think I can do another Saints book - doing the first one was such a grind!

Although I would enjoy documenting it with adding in all of the ways that Brigham Young was an absolute monster, and watching to see how the church conveniently skirts around Adam-God, blood atonement, Brigham's insane racism, sexism, and wealth accumulation.

I was wondering if they'd get them out quickly - it looks like they're going to try getting them out once a year maybe. Inoculate early and often!

edit: Maybe I will have to do a shorter version - this paragraph in the first chapter is insanity:

Over the years, the Saints had tried to share the gospel with American Indians in the United States, and they planned to do the same with the Native peoples of the West. Like most white people in the United States, many white Saints saw their culture as superior to that of the Indians and knew little about their languages and customs. But they also viewed Indians as fellow members of the house of Israel and potential allies, and they hoped to forge friendships with the Utes, Shoshones, and other western tribes.16

No mention whatsoever that the church claimed the Native Americans were the literal Book of Mormon descendants, no mention that the Saints felt they knew a LOT about the 'Indians' because they were Lamanites. Am I wrong or is this just a complete rewrite of Mormon history?

One more question - has anyone ever documented what percentage of early Nauvoo sealings were polyagmous? I had thought it was a pretty high number, yet Saints gives this description:

Though the temple as a whole remained undedicated, they had already dedicated its attic and administered the endowment there to more than five thousand eager Saints. They had also sealed approximately thirteen hundred couples for time and eternity.25 Some of these sealings were plural marriages, which a few faithful Saints had begun practicing privately in Nauvoo following a principle the Lord had revealed to Joseph Smith in the early 1830s.26

I could read it if it were subtitled "Saints 2: The Legend of Brigham's Gold".

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:11 am

No mention whatsoever that the church claimed the Native Americans were the literal Book of Mormon descendants, no mention that the Saints felt they knew a LOT about the 'Indians' because they were Lamanites. Am I wrong or is this just a complete rewrite of Mormon history?

If they are going to talk about relations between the early Saints and the Native Americans, I wonder if there will be any mention of the Circleville Massacre (http://www.blackhawkproductions.com/circleville.htm), or how the Mormons tried to scapegoat the Paiutes for Mountain Meadows. Relations between the Native Americans and the Mormon settlers weren’t all bad, but they weren’t all good either.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:33 am

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:11 am

No mention whatsoever that the church claimed the Native Americans were the literal Book of Mormon descendants, no mention that the Saints felt they knew a LOT about the 'Indians' because they were Lamanites. Am I wrong or is this just a complete rewrite of Mormon history?

If they are going to talk about relations between the early Saints and the Native Americans, I wonder if there will be any mention of the Circleville Massacre (http://www.blackhawkproductions.com/circleville.htm), or how the Mormons tried to scapegoat the Paiutes for Mountain Meadows. Relations between the Native Americans and the Mormon settlers weren’t all bad, but they weren’t all good either.

I am curious to see what they say about MM. They can't just ignore it. I don't see how you can talk about it without mentioning the attempted scapegoating that still continues today.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:33 am

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:11 am

No mention whatsoever that the church claimed the Native Americans were the literal Book of Mormon descendants, no mention that the Saints felt they knew a LOT about the 'Indians' because they were Lamanites. Am I wrong or is this just a complete rewrite of Mormon history?

If they are going to talk about relations between the early Saints and the Native Americans, I wonder if there will be any mention of the Circleville Massacre (http://www.blackhawkproductions.com/circleville.htm), or how the Mormons tried to scapegoat the Paiutes for Mountain Meadows. Relations between the Native Americans and the Mormon settlers weren’t all bad, but they weren’t all good either.

Then there is the whole thing about JSjr (in the months before he will killed) trying to organize the native tribes to follow his lead and take the Midwest back from the US government. Can't get into his plans for open rebellion, can we...?

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:20 am I am curious to see what they say about MM. They can't just ignore it. I don't see how you can talk about it without mentioning the attempted scapegoating that still continues today.

My prediction of their review of MMM:

"Some members erroneously felt that it was their duty to exact revenge on gentiles from the mid-west for Joseph Smith's murder. Acting alone and against recommendations from leaders like Brigham Young a few people attacked settlers attempting to cross the Utah territory. Unfortunately, these actions resulted in the deaths of several people on both sides of the argument. Some records indicate the local Native American tribes were also involved.

While saints in the outer settlements were struggling with these balances, church members in Salt Lake City continued to be blessed by the hand of the Lord..."

græy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:31 am

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:20 am I am curious to see what they say about MM. They can't just ignore it. I don't see how you can talk about it without mentioning the attempted scapegoating that still continues today.

My prediction of their review of MMM:

"Some members erroneously felt that it was their duty to exact revenge on gentiles from the mid-west for Joseph Smith's murder. Acting alone and against recommendations from leaders like Brigham Young a few people attacked settlers attempting to cross the Utah territory. Unfortunately, these actions resulted in the deaths of several people on both sides of the argument. Some records indicate the local Native American tribes were also involved.

While saints in the outer settlements were struggling with these balances, church members in Salt Lake City continued to be blessed by the hand of the Lord..."

Also need to add something about how the saints in the area heroically saved children who were left without parents from the violence, giving them new homes, families, and the invaluable gift of the restored and true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:20 am I am curious to see what they say about MM. They can't just ignore it. I don't see how you can talk about it without mentioning the attempted scapegoating that still continues today.

græy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:31 am While saints in the outer settlements were struggling with these balances, church members in Salt Lake City continued to be blessed by the hand of the Lord..."

You're probably correct. But maybe, just maybe, some enlightened soul will say something that directs modern readers to one reasonable lesson from this horrifying incident. It could be a lesson about:

• Use good judgement and the influence of the Holy Ghost when a leader asks you to do something
• Do not following a leader that encourages you to commit a felony
• This is an example of what happens when leadership decisions are made without communication or oversight

This may be a bridge way too far for the LDS church. I have sincere doubts that the obvious coverup from Brigham will be mentioned. John D. Lee's execution seems like a challenge for kid glove treatment by the correlation department. Some of my relatives are decsended from John D. Lee and some of them still are salty that Lee took the fall for the whole thing.

It also is unlikely to be noted how John D. Lee's Second Anointing blessings were restored some years later. This is a near explicit absolution for First Degree Murder with a promise of exaltation.