NOM

Hey everyone,
It's been a while since I've posted but it seemed like a good time. I have been on exmo reddit but this seems like a better audience for what I'm going through. I am in month 4 of my faith crisis/transition and I am trying to heed yall's advice by taking things slow and not being an asshole about stuff especially to my wife who is TBM. I don't wear G's anymore, I asked to be released as a ward missionary, I look for chances to skip church, and I am planning to ask to be released from being a primary teacher soonish. I plan to go with my wife to most sunday sacrament meetings but its really just so she won't have to be a Sunday widow. We can't often talk about the differences in opinion because she doesn't care about the history of the church. She sees the church as so amazing now that who cares about the old stuff. I have stated my support for her in believing what she wants but it is difficult because she then believes that I have to do certain things to or I may do things that she does not like. I bridged the coffee gap about 2 months ago with little fanfare. She didn't like me joking once that she should try a cup because she always complains about not having any energy ever. I quipped that she should try a cup and she did not find the humor in it. I have been open about my desire to try an alcoholic beverage but since she didn't want it in our home I respectfully agreed not to bring any into the home. I have since brought this back up by saying that it is not a good idea for me to have to drive somewhere to do it, I wanted a safe space at home to do so like the garage or the basement. She is not happy but she is getting closer to being ok with the Idea. Tonight at WalMart I wanted to pick up a bottle of Prosecco, after reading up I figured something fruity and low alcohol content would be a good place to start, and she had an absolute panic attack just thinking that I was going to buy anything alcoholic. I did not out of respect for her and we spoke about why she is afraid of it on the way home. I tried to be understanding and ask questions about her fears "Are you afraid I'll get drunk and beat you" "you have family that drinks have they ever done anything horrible" "you say you are afraid that I will smell like alcohol and you don't like the smell did those in your family who drank ever smell like alcohol". we went through a lot, but what I had a hard time with was her feeling bad. She says she has a bad feeling about it, which is TBM speak for the spirit is warning me. I told her I am respectful of her feelings but I will draw the line at her telling me what to do or not do, controlling my behavior. Im going to try a damn glass of wine and no I don't think anyone is going to die and no it doesn't mean that your feelings are not important to me but that also does not mean the I have to do what you say especially when what you are saying is completely based on a belief system that I no longer share.
She is getting used to my tank tops around the house, which I am in love with. and she is getting used to me being honest about my thoughts about what church leaders say and or what is taught in church. There was an episode last week where she overheard me listening to an episode of Infants on Thrones (The Poleman talk episodes where he is disrespectful and laughing) and she had a full meltdown because it was so disrespectful. She argues that it is morally wrong for someone to comb over a conference talk and discuss why its wrong or where they disagree. She says that she is too respectful to do that to what the pope says, I simply argue that it is wonderful that she is respectful but it is not morally wrong for someone who disagrees to podcast about why they disagree and they can be as vulgar or disrespectful as they want because no one is forcing anyone to listen to a podcast. I will try to get her to listen to some mormon stories sooner or later because I think John does a good job of keeping it about the person sharing their experience.
Our marriage was on shaky ground to begin with and I think I might be adding the nails to the coffin, but our relationship has a lot to do with my shelf breaking anyway so there's no turning back. I have reasons to be hopeful but at the same time, this is getting really hard.

Thanks for being there NOMmers.

Also shout out to Consigliere, I love RFM, he is the man.

Well, you have certainly made more effort and stride in 4 months than I have made in 4 years.

Boozer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:37 pm Our marriage was on shaky ground to begin with and I think I might be adding the nails to the coffin, but our relationship has a lot to do with my shelf breaking anyway so there's no turning back. I have reasons to be hopeful but at the same time, this is getting really hard.

What does "success" look like for your relationship? And what does success look like for your faith transition? Do those two ideas of success work together?

The disaffection journey with a faithful spouse is hard. Many here are on the journey with you, hang in there.

Your rant about trying a damn glass of wine resonated with me. It is so frustrating to deal with the mormon viewpoint on alcohol. I'm fine with people choosing not to drink, and being wary of alcohol for health reasons and avoiding falling into alcoholism, but the mormon view that a glass of wine or a bottle of beer will instantly cause an instant loss of worthiness and turn you into a raging alcoholic in the grasp of satan is silly.

As frustrating as it all is, from my experience you need to space out the changes. You've shed the garments. You started drinking coffee a couple months ago. You are releasing yourself from your callings. Let that become the new normal and let her see you and your relationship with each other is ok. Then introduce another item you want to incorporate like alcohol. Too much too fast can cause some relationships to fail that may not have to. (Only you can decide if you think the relationship is worth staying in).

With that said, ripping off the bandaid has worked pretty well for some too. Ultimately we are rocking part of the foundation of our spouse's worldview. Fast or slow it is painful. Even though it's not our fault that the church isn't what it claims, we have to recognize the reality of the situation if we are to effectively navigate.

Sounds like you are not sure if your marriage is a desired long term investment or not. It kind of feels like you are being respectful while pushing as hard as you dare but not fully breaking the ice.

When I went through some similar situations with my DW when she was TBM I could see the immediate cogdis over the alcohol; me having a beer at lunch once in a while. So I told her I either wouldn't do it or just not saying anything. I kept some beverages out in the garage and still had many beers with friends and coworkers. In the meantime I doubled down on the good husbanding, stayed as positive as I could but made it clear I was still struggling with the church truth claims. I managed to get her to take 1-2 weekends each month to go and do family activities or couple activities in the great outdoors. She began to see a big difference in her stress level on the weekends without church. Also, where I doubled down on the good spouse side, she gained confidence she was the priority in my life, could see how much happier and less stressed I was outside the church and she then had confidence she had a safe place to land if she ever left it.

All I needed at this point was a catalyst, something to help her shelf break. Not too many months later I got it with the seer stone out of the closet, sneaking in the gay hate policy and her oldest DD announcing that she had doubts and her DH didn't believe anymore. She already had lots of things on the shelf like the misogamy male structure and the way we were treated as second class members with our melded family.

Anyway, you might try some of these methods if you want the relationship to weather the storm and possibly take your DW with you out of the matrix. By becoming a closet drinker you can still have your own life away from church but it does mean living a double life for a while to see if it goes anywhere. I think that pushing your desires on your DW at this point just make her pull her TBM jacket tighter around her; maybe try bringing out the sun of love and genuine friendship without the church in the middle to see if that makes her take that jacket off.

This post definitely resonates with me... I'm 14 months since finding out all of the church stuff and it's still really difficult, and I know others on here have been going much longer.

Right now DW and I just do not talk about church stuff. She knows that I listen to podcasts and post here (well, not specifically here.. just that I post with non-reddit exmos), and I know that she listens to Deseret News streaming service which makes me cringe but what can you do.

I am trying to find ways to do more around the house and help out when I can and hopefully we can weather the storm when church stuff comes up.

We haven't talked church stuff in a few months and it's really annoying because I know she wants to ask me about things and I want to talk about it, but she is super retrenched since I found out so there's nothing either of us can do unless hopefully she starts to think about these issues with a more objective point of view. I'm not holding my breath.

I don't have a huge desire to run out and drink coffee and alcohol with regularity, but I find it very annoying. One time I had a work outing a few years ago (I was inactive but hadn't learned all this stuff) and she woke me up at 3am to ask if I had a drink... I had not. The times when I did have a drink at a work event where I'd just carry a drink around so I dind't have to keep answering why I wasn't drinking anything, she has acted like I had gone blackout drunk.

So it sucks... it's a process and everyone has varying levels of success. So far I am having no success discussing church things but starting to have some success otherwise so I'm taking those positives and trying to add more positives to the pot on my end.

Anyway keep posting here and hopefully people can help relay their stories and it might help you to avoid some landmines and also how to talk with your wife in a way that isn't as volatile. I wish I had this group before I talked to my wife - that's for sure.

Good luck and keep us posted!