NOM

Giving an ex-mormon her own leather copy of the BOM with her name embossed on it. Awkward! Took them long enough to casually mention Adern was raised mormon.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... -tour.html

I loved how they waited until almost the end to mention she left the church...

And giving someone who left the church a BoM with their name on it is either passive-aggressive or tacky. Take your pick.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:07 am I loved how they waited until almost the end to mention she left the church...

And giving someone who left the church a BoM with their name on it is either passive-aggressive or tacky. Take your pick.

It's both.

I find this quote from President Nelson so condescending:

"She's courageous," he said, adding, "The world will discover they've got a real leader here. It's an unlikely scenario, a young mother leading a great nation, a peacemaker, a policymaker, a consensus-builder. We're very confident she'll have a great future."

So, President Nelson, keeping in mind this is 2019 and not 1955 - why is it such an unlikely scenario that "a young mother leading a great nation...". Being just a little too blatant with your sexism there, aren't you?

Also, there is some conversation on Reddit regarding Sherri Dew's inclusion on the trip - I think it's a fair question why she gets to go to New Zealand on the Church's dime. What position does she hold that justifies using Church funds to send her other than being Sister Nelson's best friend? (see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ow_badass/)

There is a scene in Hell on Wheels where Brigham Young attempts to woo the Olive Oatman character (tattoo faced woman from a mormon breakoff sect) back into his fold. This meeting reminded me of that.

https://youtu.be/kfIVsvpaZ98

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 11:03 am There is a scene in Hell on Wheels where Brigham Young attempts to woo the Olive Oatman character (tattoo faced woman from a mormon breakoff sect) back into his fold. This meeting reminded me of that.

https://youtu.be/kfIVsvpaZ98

The term "Pious Prick" comes to mind; in both situations!

jfro18 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:07 am I loved how they waited until almost the end to mention she left the church...

The placement doesn't bother me much. For almost every reader except disaffected members and ex-members, it's barely important. What bothers me is the paltering:

Ardern was raised in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but is no longer a practicing member.

I suppose "no longer a practicing member" is better than "less-active member." Most members won't get from this that she made a conscious decision to leave. They'll assume she drifted away in sin or laziness.

On the other hand, it's no worse than the bullshit they're normally told. Status quo.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:13 am I find this quote from President Nelson so condescending:

"She's courageous," he said, adding, "The world will discover they've got a real leader here. It's an unlikely scenario, a young mother leading a great nation, a peacemaker, a policymaker, a consensus-builder. We're very confident she'll have a great future."

So, President Nelson, keeping in mind this is 2019 and not 1955 - why is it such an unlikely scenario that "a young mother leading a great nation...". Being just a little too blatant with your sexism there, aren't you?

It's the last sentence that bothers me most, actually. "We're very confident she'll have a great future" sounds like taking ownership of part of her accomplishments - as if the church placed her there. You say things like that about people in your hierarchy, not about people outside of it.

They can't help but annoy us. It's all part of the church's arrogance.

I guess the more I think about it, the more this episode troubles me. Reuben is correct:

Reuben wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 pm
They can't help but annoy us. It's all part of the church's arrogance.

All the same, this is a revealing insight:

Reuben wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 pm
You say things like that about people in your hierarchy, not about people outside of it.

They treated Prime Minister Ardern differently than they treat other world leaders - as someone pointed out earlier, the Pope didn’t get a Book of Mormon, and so far as I know Trump didn’t get one either when Church leaders met with him (of course, what’s the point? He can hardly read, and merely pays lip service to religious principles for his base, he doesn’t give a crap about religion). But Prime Minister Ardern gets a Book of Mormon, solely because of her history with the Church, and ask yourself why? Do they really think it will lead her back to the Church? Of course not, President Nelson isn’t that delusional. It was a power play - it put her in the awkward position of having to accept something out of professionalism that she has rejected in her private life. It was a way of forcing her to legitimize to some extent something she has publicly said she no longer sees as legitimate. Bringing along an uncle who is a General Authority added another level of awkwardness to the whole thing. They intentionally put her in a difficult situation, they wouldn’t have done that with a nevermo.

Add to that the condescending “young mother” comment (would they ever have referred to Justin Trudeau as a “young father”?), and it seems to me that much of this encounter was orchestrated to take some subtle swipes at Prime Minister Ardern in ways that only Church members would understand. It seems to me they did this for two reasons - Church members get a kick out of seeing a former member given a Book of Mormon by the prophet, to some extent that is seen as the prophet calling her to repentance subtly and giving her a bit of a comeuppance, and secondly it to some extent erodes her legitimacy and public image with the condescending remarks about the “unlikely scenario”.

I don’t think any of this was a faux pas or social cluelessness done in good faith. I think it was a underhanded strike against a former member. I think it was intentional and malicious - but in the grand Mormon tradition, malicious with a smile.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 5:18 am I don’t think any of this was a faux pas or social cluelessness done in good faith. I think it was a underhanded strike against a former member. I think it was intentional and malicious - but in the grand Mormon tradition, malicious with a smile.

The church is spending a TON of tithing money on this 7 country tour for RMN and his rather large entourage, and they have carefully planned out PR wins in each stop whether it's a devotional where Nelson can be hero worshiped or they can force a Book of Mormon on a world leader that will make for a great photo back on the Deseret News homepage.

You're right - Nelson knows that she's never coming back to the church, but that photo makes everyone back home nod and smile and think "the work is being done by our prophet. WE SUSTAIN YOU."

And that quote is not made up - I was someone say it yesterday in response to that photo.

I don't think it was malicious - I think it was a bit of a power play for a photo-op. What would have been amazing is if they asked her why she left and what would bring her back, but they don't want to know because they have no actual authority to do anything in this world.

I guess I don't think Nelson is an evil man - I just think he's a very petty, narcissistic one... and maybe I'm the one being naive.

The ultimate return jab would be for the PM to take the BOM, thank them for it, then hand it to their assistant, telling them to file it under Fiction.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 5:41 am The ultimate return jab would be for the PM to take the BOM, thank them for it, then hand it to their assistant, telling them to file it under Fiction.

Even if she had the Deseret News would've said: "And when PM Ardern was gifted the Book of Mormon she smiled and handed it to her assistant to be quickly put in a special place to her as the room glowed with the spirit beaming from our beloved prophet's eyes towards the prime minister."

Need more proof that DN writers are paid based on the number of words kissing RMN's ass.

Here is a well-written article about the meeting: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/05 ... ormonisms/

Sister Wendy is getting a whirlwind tour across the Pacific.

Time out!

A happy successful EX-mormon?

Cannot be.

Over on Reddit they are in a fizzle because RMN gave Jacinda a picture of himself. I didn’t see the picture, but it sounds like something he would do. Maybe he wanted to have his picture hanging in the wall in her conference room.

While I generally agree with the majority of your post NBI, I'm not so sure about this statement:

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 5:18 amBut Prime Minister Ardern gets a Book of Mormon, solely because of her history with the Church, and ask yourself why? Do they really think it will lead her back to the Church? Of course not, President Nelson isn’t that delusional.

I do believe that cRusty believes that worthless fictional book can "bring her back to the church." He's been told that his entire life. He's preached that his entire life. He lives in a bubble where everyone around him believes the book can work magic.

And yes, I also believe he is delusional. He's almost 95 years old. He wakes up at night and writes his dreams (delusions) down as "revelations." It's really not his magic pen coming up with his crazy "revelations:" He really is deluded into thinking a magic man wearing a toga in outer-space is talking to him.

"She's courageous," he said, adding, "The world will discover they've got a real leader here. It's an unlikely scenario, a young mother leading a great nation, a peacemaker, a policymaker, a consensus-builder. We're very confident she'll have a great future."

This is a very disturbing and offensive statement. Unlikely that a young mother leads a nation? And invoking the royal "we" as though he speaks for God or speaks for some superior organization that is somehow authorized to use misogynistic language?...and what qualifies RMN to even know what constitutes a great future?

This statement drips with couched arrogance. It wouldn't matter WHO said it,...its still wrong.

PSS. And what qualifies RMN to speak for "the world"...because after all, "[they] will discover they've got a real leader here." Interestingly he doesn't say: "I think she is a great leader.". Nope...he doesn't acknowledge that himself...he speaks for "the world".

2bizE wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 9:41 am Over on Reddit they are in a fizzle because RMN gave Jacinda a picture of himself. I didn’t see the picture, but it sounds like something he would do. Maybe he wanted to have his picture hanging in the wall in her conference room.

One of the still Mormon members of her family will treasure that photograph signed by President Nelson. It could become the centerpiece of a dedicated shrine.

Her uncle is about to become the Area President.

Interesting that they don’t mention that she is a mother with her defacto partner. lol

Also interesting that they flew to Wellington solely to visit with the PM. No other meetings were held that day. An expensive drop in considering they have two private jets on this trip.

no1saint wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 10:25 pm Her uncle is about to become the Area President.

Interesting that they don’t mention that she is a mother with her defacto partner. lol

Also interesting that they flew to Wellington solely to visit with the PM. No other meetings were held that day. An expensive drop in considering they have two private jets on this trip.

It's a great photo op with a world leader that is being talked about everywhere. I don't pay attention to the official church news sites, but it's pretty clear this trip is designed to get a ton of photo ops and headlines to highlight their donations being made... no amounts, of course, but just promises to donate. That and, of course, Nelson talks where he gets the prophet worship he craves along with Wendy.

The church clearly felt the NZ trip was worth the $$ for the photo op -- and they clearly have the $$ to burn without having to worry about it.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:13 amAlso, there is some conversation on Reddit regarding Sherri Dew's inclusion on the trip - I think it's a fair question why she gets to go to New Zealand on the Church's dime. What position does she hold that justifies using Church funds to send her other than being Sister Nelson's best friend? (see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ow_badass/)

She does have a position. A new one. I don't recall what it is, but I recall the online discussion that mentioned it (can't tell you which online discussion; sorry that I'm not remembering the important stuff). Essentially, it's a promotion that enables her to go with them everywhere. I'm thinking maybe something to do with setting up the photos they take?

I couldn't remember any links, so I did a search to try to find them and the search immediately told me "Other people ask," and all of them but one mentioned Russ's name (and the other one only asked who the CEO of Deseret Book is). Anyway, all I could find was that she'd been promoted to run Deseret Book, but this is new position is something else.