NOM

https://www.ksl.com/article/46541841/ju ... eenage-boy

Former bishop convicted of molesting young boys. Yep, it happens in the LDS church. It looks like the Church responded quickly and appropriately in this case- no cover up. So, that's good. But, the Church needs background checks on these people. We obviously can't rely on inspiration to keep out the predators 100%.

They aren’t even showing the comments at all now. That is so anti-journalistic. That’s something North Korea would do.

Dang, they actually let my comment through moderation this time, too. That was short lived.

I wonder what kind of logic the Brethren use in determining when to beat a retreat on an issue? As I said in the thread about the BYU valedictorian, I think there are clear signs the Brethren are modifying their approach to LGBT issues because they know long term its not a sustainable battle. But why are they so obstinate on Bishops interviews alone with youth? Why hasn't the bad press pushed them to back off of this practice also?

I'll tell you why - control. They can soften their approach on LGBT issues and they really don't see much reduction in their control over the membership. But those one-on-one interviews with members are absolutely priceless in terms of maintaining control of the membership. What better way to assert your authority over someone than to get them alone in a room and ask the most invasive, personal, boundary-obliterating questions possible? Psychologically most members have no idea what kind of power that gives the institution, and the extent to which they are broken and made pliable by this practice. It gives you an unique kind of power over a person you can't get in any other way.

There could be a thousand news articles about bishops who were child molesters and they still wouldn't give up worthiness interviews. The practice gives them too much power to ever give it up.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 5:31 amBut why are they so obstinate on Bishops interviews alone with youth? Why hasn't the bad press pushed them to back off of this practice also?

Well... They have backed off, slightly. Remember: A young person can now "request" to have an adult accompany them in the interview.

The Board of Directors, along with their gaggle of attorneys is probably just sitting back and watching what happens now, hoping they don't have to offer any other concessions. Any collateral damage doesn't really matter; It's all just part of what LD$-Inc. does to perpetuate their mulit-billion dollar real-estate corporation (church?)


Personally, I think for every abuse case against LD$-Inc. we hear about, there are likely hundreds more that Kirton|McConkie and LD$-Inc. have covered up with their money and influence.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:14 am

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 5:31 amBut why are they so obstinate on Bishops interviews alone with youth? Why hasn't the bad press pushed them to back off of this practice also?

Well... They have backed off, slightly. Remember: A young person can now "request" to have an adult accompany them in the interview.

The Board of Directors, along with their gaggle of attorneys is probably just sitting back and watching what happens now, hoping they don't have to offer any other concessions. Any collateral damage doesn't really matter; It's all just part of what LD$-Inc. does to perpetuate their mulit-billion dollar real-estate corporation (church?)


Personally, I think for every abuse case against LD$-Inc. we hear about, there are likely hundreds more that Kirton|McConkie and LD$-Inc. have covered up with their money and influence.

I have no doubt you are correct regarding cases you never hear about. Sometimes it doesn’t take Kirton-McConkie (formerly Kirton, McConkie & Poelman - that’s quite a story if you know it, see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _law_firm/) to hush a case up, sometimes all it takes is the Bishop telling the family the local Church leaders will handle it. I know personally of at least one case where families of the victims of a serial molester were told that.

And regarding the Church “allowing” us to accompany our children in interviews - it kills me the way the Church acts like it is some kind of concession when it was really our right as parents all along. When you think about it, it’s pretty creepy the way the Church thinks its rights to access to our children override our rights as parents. They shouldn’t think they are in a position to tell us whether or not they can be alone with our children.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:14 amPersonally, I think for every abuse case against LD$-Inc. we hear about, there are likely hundreds more that Kirton|McConkie and LD$-Inc. have covered up with their money and influence.

I will say that it is getting harder for LDS Inc. to cover up these cases. More and more cases are seeing the light of day and public knowledge. it's a slow process and every case they do coverup is an offense to the god they claim to worship.

Some have suggested that this type of abuse is more common from church leadership - at the top. I don’t know if that’s true, but the way they have covered up in the past seems to at least suggest they are in part complicit. And the way they have not ensured the protection of children - even in the most basic ways that are usually required by educators etc working with children - also suggests contributing in part to enabling abuse.

Last fall, around the time when President Nelson issued the decree of an internet fast, a past case was brought up again, involving him.
Was the 1985 charge against Brenda Nelson a “cover up”?
https://fox13now.com/2018/10/03/lawsuit ... president/

Miles charges were mysteriously dismissed despite Bill Cartensen admitting to being one of the perpetrator along with Brenda Miles (Nelson’s daughter), who was “mostly the cheerleeder and took the videos” during the sexual abuse “parties.” (p. 15 & 20)
http://www.restoreourhumanity.org/files/ABlipHere.pdf

Newme wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 4:04 pm Some have suggested that this type of abuse is more common from church leadership - at the top. I don’t know if that’s true, but the way they have covered up in the past seems to at least suggest they are in part complicit. And the way they have not ensured the protection of children - even in the most basic ways that are usually required by educators etc working with children - also suggests contributing in part to enabling abuse.

Last fall, around the time when President Nelson issued the decree of an internet fast, a past case was brought up again, involving him.
Was the 1985 charge against Brenda Nelson a “cover up”?
https://fox13now.com/2018/10/03/lawsuit ... president/

Miles charges were mysteriously dismissed despite Bill Cartensen admitting to being one of the perpetrator along with Brenda Miles (Nelson’s daughter), who was “mostly the cheerleeder and took the videos” during the sexual abuse “parties.” (p. 15 & 20)
http://www.restoreourhumanity.org/files/ABlipHere.pdf

Carefully worded denials. I believe the victims.

Frankly, I'm so weary of church and family secrets. May the perpetrators and enablers all burn in hell. This means you RMN.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:24 pm

Newme wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 4:04 pm Some have suggested that this type of abuse is more common from church leadership - at the top. I don’t know if that’s true, but the way they have covered up in the past seems to at least suggest they are in part complicit. And the way they have not ensured the protection of children - even in the most basic ways that are usually required by educators etc working with children - also suggests contributing in part to enabling abuse.

Last fall, around the time when President Nelson issued the decree of an internet fast, a past case was brought up again, involving him.
Was the 1985 charge against Brenda Nelson a “cover up”?
https://fox13now.com/2018/10/03/lawsuit ... president/

Miles charges were mysteriously dismissed despite Bill Cartensen admitting to being one of the perpetrator along with Brenda Miles (Nelson’s daughter), who was “mostly the cheerleeder and took the videos” during the sexual abuse “parties.” (p. 15 & 20)
http://www.restoreourhumanity.org/files/ABlipHere.pdf

Carefully worded denials. I believe the victims.

Frankly, I'm so weary of church and family secrets. May the perpetrators and enablers all burn in hell. This means you RMN.

And right now there are **two** cases in the news where someone raped a girl, one a bus driver and the other kidnapped a teen and kept her for a year and police found her in a dog cage, and neither case got any jail time. Our whole f***ed up society covers for rapists and child molesters and when caught all they get is a slap on the hand, if they even get brought to trial.

Our society needs to start recognizing the damage that child sexual abuse does. We need to stop seeing rape as a crime against the man who owns the woman and start seeing it as the violence against women that it is. I had a psychology professor when I was in college and he was violently former Mormon. Once we got talking and I asked him what had happened. He was a convert to the church and worked with child protective services with sexually abused children. He found out that adultery would get a man excommunicated, but raping his five year old daughter only got a man disfellowshipped. There was no other man who “owned” his daughter, so the church didn’t see it as damaging another man’s property, like with adultery, only his own property was damaged. He went up against the church to try to explain the damage done to a child compared to a concerting adult and get the policy changed. He was told by the general authorities to mind his own business and quit criticizing the church leaders. THEY knew which sins were more serious. Of course, this has been changed, because he went public with his criticism back sometime in the 70s.

Another friend of mine, high enough in the church to know Elder Packer personally told me once that when asked about a woman who had been raped in childhood, his response was, “why isn’t she over something that happened in the second grade.” Totally zero comprehension of the damage done by this kind of betrayal.

So, I am with Thoughtful, “May the perpetrators and enablers all burn in hell.” And I want to add “the powerful men who refuse to see the violence done and damage caused by child sexual abuse and rape and treat it as no big deal.” To the list of those whom I want to burn in hell.

There is a book called “Paper Dolls” (if I remember the title correctly) about the child sexual abuse ring that Nelson’s daughter was involved in. If you want to despise Nelson for that cover up, I recommend you read it. It doesn’t name the daughter of a general authority who was involved, but just says one was.

I believe the victims.

I believe them too - logically and intuitively.

But those one-on-one interviews with members are absolutely priceless in terms of maintaining control of the membership. What better way to assert your authority over someone than to get them alone in a room and ask the most invasive, personal, boundary-obliterating questions possible? Psychologically most members have no idea what kind of power that gives the institution, and the extent to which they are broken and made pliable by this practice. It gives you an unique kind of power over a person you can't get in any other way.

Completely agree. It's a way of making sure that members know that they have no boundaries or privacy which cannot be infringed upon by the church.