NOM

After church, my teen’s Sunday school teacher came up to me and asked, “Is —— registered for seminary? He said he’s not.” I smiled and avoided the question and thanked him for teaching. Later I asked my son and he said it was so awkward how he was singled out in front of the class because he’s not signed up for seminary. I told him it’s ok, but inside I didn’t feel ok.

I realize the teacher thinks he’s doing what’s right but it really upset me. It’s a cult - 2 hours each Sunday, FHE each week and mutual each week besides scouts - is enough. I don’t want my kids subject to more cultish mind control. Plus there are studies that suggest the more religious involvement - the worse off - moderation in all good things. But if I said this to that teacher, he’d probably shun us even worse (they generally don’t let their kids play with our kids).

Any thoughts?

That's brutal - so sorry to hear that.

They are trained to pressure people into these things, so I guess on some level you can't blame the members. I suppose you could let the teacher know that it makes your child uncomfortable to be singled out and politely ask if they could not talk about it in front of other kids, but you know better as to how that would go over.

Seminary is insane - I did not join until after HS so I thankfully missed it, but DW did it and I always was amazed at it because at the time it seemed insane just as it does now. And if you check reddit, a lot of teens post the lessons they are taught in seminary that are just horribly untrue, which is all the more reason I hope my kid never attends.

Hope you get some positive resolution on this so it's not an ongoing thing -- I wish there was an easy answer for that.

"How could that possibly be any of your business?"

Repeat as necessary which might be a lot.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:09 am That's brutal - so sorry to hear that.

They are trained to pressure people into these things, so I guess on some level you can't blame the members. I suppose you could let the teacher know that it makes your child uncomfortable to be singled out and politely ask if they could not talk about it in front of other kids, but you know better as to how that would go over.

Seminary is insane - I did not join until after HS so I thankfully missed it, but DW did it and I always was amazed at it because at the time it seemed insane just as it does now. And if you check reddit, a lot of teens post the lessons they are taught in seminary that are just horribly untrue, which is all the more reason I hope my kid never attends.

Hope you get some positive resolution on this so it's not an ongoing thing -- I wish there was an easy answer for that.

Thanks. I hope it’s not ongoing too. If it does, I might talk to him.
Luckily, my kids play with other kids. And the guy can be nice - but as you mentioned, he’s been trained to kind of encourage religious fanaticism (without realizing it).

dogbite wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:54 am "How could that possibly be any of your business?"

Repeat as necessary which might be a lot.

I just said it aloud. Thanks.
I need to memorize it - so it comes out when needed.

When I was a sophomore in high school, the LDS seminary teachers apparently released a list of students not taking seminary to the seminary students and asked them to get the non-seminary students to sign up for the next year. The seminary students then proceeded to gang up on these non-seminary students and pressure them to enroll in next year's seminary classes. I was on the receiving end of this pressure. Being surrounded by a wild gang of seminarians in the halls of the high school is rather unpleasant. So this is a tactic that has survived for decades.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:48 pm When I was a sophomore in high school, the LDS seminary teachers apparently released a list of students not taking seminary to the seminary students and asked them to get the non-seminary students to sign up for the next year. The seminary students then proceeded to gang up on these non-seminary students and pressure them to enroll in next year's seminary classes. I was on the receiving end of this pressure. Being surrounded by a wild gang of seminarians in the halls of the high school is rather unpleasant. So this is a tactic that has survived for decades.

That’s messed up that they did that. Not only is it a form of bullying, but it’s undermining parents. Sorry you went through that. I imagine at least some of that gang of seminarians now realize how inappropriate that was.

I don’t remember feeling a lot of pressure to go to (early morning) seminary. Except some shaming in talks about how much better one is for having graduated seminary etc. Then again, I ran away & moved a lot during those years - so it was hit & miss anyway. I do remember one cool lesson (by a substitute) an early morning. A favorite in our ward gave a lesson about how to be rich with compound interest - he even did the math. Now, THAT was relevant & helpful. I loved & miss that guy - he’s passed on since then - but he also made everything fun or funny.

Early morning seminary is an issue that the church has not had to widely confront quite yet. It is an objective drag on sleep deprived teenagers. Extracurricular activities and homework take up so much of free time and how they lose an extra hour and a half of sleep each morning for the poor souls who have early morning seminary.

I suspect that the PR department has a prepared statement about how seminary is a vital part of the LDS experience and that the benefits outweight the lack of sleep. This will be followed by an ironic call for prioritizing the activities that we put our teenagers into. Seminary will be prioritized by the church ahead of sports or homework. Parents will be encouraged to push back on those other activities to prefer LDS religious instruction.

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:51 am Early morning seminary is an issue that the church has not had to widely confront quite yet. It is an objective drag on sleep deprived teenagers. Extracurricular activities and homework take up so much of free time and how they lose an extra hour and a half of sleep each morning for the poor souls who have early morning seminary.

I suspect that the PR department has a prepared statement about how seminary is a vital part of the LDS experience and that the benefits outweight the lack of sleep. This will be followed by an ironic call for prioritizing the activities that we put our teenagers into. Seminary will be prioritized by the church ahead of sports or homework. Parents will be encouraged to push back on those other activities to prefer LDS religious instruction.

An extra hour and a half of church in the morning requires an hour and a half earlier bedtime the night prior means less time out and about after HG's bedtime and less opportunity for 'physical mischief.' See, all part of God special plan for each of us. Uncanny how someones special and unique plan is just like everyone else's.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:10 pm An extra hour and a half of church in the morning requires an hour and a half earlier bedtime the night prior means less time out and about after HG's bedtime and less opportunity for 'physical mischief.' See, all part of God special plan for each of us. Uncanny how someones special and unique plan is just like everyone else's.

That's a nice idea, except my experience with teenagers is that "physical mischief" is preferred over "going to bed at a decent hour." Heaven help the Mormon teenager who also has parents who get them up for family scripture study before early morning seminary. I actually tried that when my oldest was still in grade school. It did not last long because my wife actually voted for more sleep over family scripture study.

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:51 am Early morning seminary is an issue that the church has not had to widely confront quite yet. It is an objective drag on sleep deprived teenagers. Extracurricular activities and homework take up so much of free time and how they lose an extra hour and a half of sleep each morning for the poor souls who have early morning seminary.

I suspect that the PR department has a prepared statement about how seminary is a vital part of the LDS experience and that the benefits outweight the lack of sleep. This will be followed by an ironic call for prioritizing the activities that we put our teenagers into. Seminary will be prioritized by the church ahead of sports or homework. Parents will be encouraged to push back on those other activities to prefer LDS religious instruction.

Now that I think of it, I’m surprised I haven’t heard more about seminary. But maybe we will soon. It seems that the church leadership is quite methodical - like they researched to discover genealogy and temple work kept people active & paying tithes - so I see that pushed. Maybe seminary doesn’t have such clear benefits - so it isn’t pushed as much. I read that there are about 400,000 seminary students in 140 countries. That’s not a lot out of 14,000,000 members - though active seminary age may only account for a fraction.

Who knows stats etc...
http://www.fullerconsideration.com/membership.php

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:29 pm

Kishkumen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:10 pm An extra hour and a half of church in the morning requires an hour and a half earlier bedtime the night prior means less time out and about after HG's bedtime and less opportunity for 'physical mischief.' See, all part of God special plan for each of us. Uncanny how someones special and unique plan is just like everyone else's.

That's a nice idea, except my experience with teenagers is that "physical mischief" is preferred over "going to bed at a decent hour." Heaven help the Mormon teenager who also has parents who get them up for family scripture study before early morning seminary. I actually tried that when my oldest was still in grade school. It did not last long because my wife actually voted for more sleep over family scripture study.

You just triggered several painful childhood memories of my folks trying to enact something similar. There's always that one family in the ward that's super human TBM and does family prayer/Scriptures every day before anything else and they get up in testimony meeting every 1st Sunday to share how awesome it is. Every other family is silently guilted into not being as awesome.

dogbite wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:54 am "How could that possibly be any of your business?"

Repeat as necessary which might be a lot.

Perfect response! Applicable to all kinds of other contexts.

With recent studies showing teenagers need more sleep, and their bodies are pre-dispositioned to go to sleep late and wake up late, schools are starting to start later and later. California has a bill pending that would require high schools to start no earlier than 8:30.

You might say great, seminary can then start at 7:00am, and kids get more sleep. The problem is most of the seminary teachers have normal full time jobs, and need to be on their way at 7:00 to work. This would limit the pool of teachers to stay at home moms/dads, or retired people.
This will be yet another stick in the eye for the church when this all settles out.