NOM

The termination of the POX is not the only news. Has anyone read much about the protests against the honor code? I thought the Instagram account was heartbreaking: https://www.instagram.com/honorcodestories/

I never had a run in with the HCO during my time in Provo. That's not to say I always obeyed the Honor Code. I won't confess my sins here, but few bishops would even care about the things I did. However, I realize now that the HCO could have totally derailed my life if they had known what I did. Even as a TBM it bothered me that the HCO had so much power without any priesthood "authority." The HCO does not encourage repentance. It does not help students lead better lives. It should be abolished.

I've been reading these. They're awful. The ones I find the most chilling are the ones where a student is asked to prove their complete remorse for their sins by providing the names of other students who have transgressed the Honor Code. It smacks of McCarthyism to me and I can't for the life of me figure out what any of it has to do with honor.

As a victim of the HCO myself, I find these stories deeply concerning et unsurprising.

My experience was at Ricks.

A platonic female friend of my room mate had fallen asleep on the couch watching a movie. She slept over on the couch. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Her roommates reported her spending the night.

She got pulled into the HC office and was interrogated. She explained herself. Then they pulled in my roommate and every person who lived in the apartment.

We were all put on probation for the remainder of the semester, attend weekly devotional and write a 1 page paper about it, and required to meet with the HCO weekly.

It's crazy that anyone can get called in for any reason.

I am regularly thankful that I have Arizona State University on my transcripts and no mention of any 19th century polygamist. I may have to ask my siblings if the HCO ever bothered them.

Fifi de la Vergne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:14 am I've been reading these. They're awful. The ones I find the most chilling are the ones where a student is asked to prove their complete remorse for their sins by providing the names of other students who have transgressed the Honor Code. It smacks of McCarthyism to me and I can't for the life of me figure out what any of it has to do with honor.

Can't say it any better than this. I had no idea it was this bad, and I've had a few kids go to church schools. So I asked them about it, and they never had these kinds of challenges, either themselves or their roommates. I suspect like everything else, it's a game of roulette what the outcome will be. But it sure seems like a lot of kids lost.

When the BYU students sign that lengthy list of don'ts, I doubt many of them realize how many human rights they are giving up. Even the ones who give it some thought do not have a clue about the deviations from fairness that occur in the Honor and Penitence Committee.

The only kids who should be sent to BYU are the strict conformists. Send think-for-themselves Suzie and Johnny to Utah Valley University if you want them married to a Mormon.

A co-worker of DW related how she had reported a room mate to the HCO. The roommate was kicked out of BYU. No details were available, but it was clear to DW that there was absolutely no remorse from co-worker. More like a sense of pride.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:52 am As a victim of the HCO myself, I find these stories deeply concerning et unsurprising.

My experience was at Ricks.

A platonic female friend of my room mate had fallen asleep on the couch watching a movie. She slept over on the couch. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Her roommates reported her spending the night.

She got pulled into the HC office and was interrogated. She explained herself. Then they pulled in my roommate and every person who lived in the apartment.

We were all put on probation for the remainder of the semester, attend weekly devotional and write a 1 page paper about it, and required to meet with the HCO weekly.

It's crazy that anyone can get called in for any reason.

Did they have bed checks when you were at Ricks?

I remember going from the Y to visit someone there, and we were staying with a friend in an off-campus apartment. Someone (prefect? ) came in to double-check that only girls were in the apartment at curfew. It made me feel glad that I was a part of the liberal beacon that was the Y. hahaha

RR and I were st Rick's at the same time and ran in some of the same sketchy crowds. I got to speak to the dean and spend some probation time there too. Stupid narks.

Some kid got jealous we didnt invite him to Utah to my parents cabin. We were all dragged in and interrogated separately. Who was having sex with whom? What drugs were you doing? How drunk did you get? Where are the aborted fetuses? (Okay all bit that last one).

What a joke. RM,'s in a other state. Yet somehow we had to plea deal for our graduation. I was TBM then of course but it all still pissed me off. What a bunch of tattle telling, taffy pulling horse $#!+.

I can remember several things I probably would have been kicked out for if they knee all the details. That said, you need not suppose me to have been guilty of some grave offense of the commandments. Such a thing was never in my disposition. I merely fell into the follies of youth (projectiles, pranks, breaking curfew, and sudden loud noise making devices). I was completely temple worthy, but not compliant with the Lords code of honor at the celestial school in Rexburg.

Later at BYU we probably had a lot more leeway, but I can imagine the right snitch and the wrong bishop and I could have been transfering to UVSC under duress.

They need to loosen the noose at both schools. I think they can do that without pushing the freshmen down the slippery slope to drunken orgies in Helaman Halls.

What a joke. Sadly there are too many stories of lives truly destroyed by HC violations and @$$hole leaders.

The Trib did an article on this.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/04/10/ ... byu-idaho/

I like one of the commenter's post:

The abominable and unpredictable and demeaning and unaccountable way the honor code is enforced is identical to the totally unaccountable and revolting way wider church "discipline" is handled. This church has a basic accountability problem. ...

I have a daughter who was thinking of transferring to BYU as a junior. She has two full years of community college out of the way. The HCO problems really bother her and I'm looking forward to an uncomfortable conversation she might have with her mother as Daughter explains why she is reticent to attend the Lord's university. I expect some fallout to go on for some time.

Hey, just use the fact that for most majors, you get a much better education at other Utah schools. BYU isn't ranked nearly as high as it used to be in almost all fields. For science majors, USU and the U are much better ranking schools. the U is way ahead of BYU in medicine as well.

Accounting is about the only one where it is a top ranked school.

So it has nothing to do with church, but with your daughter getting the best education she can for her future.

Fifi de la Vergne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:14 am I've been reading these. They're awful. The ones I find the most chilling are the ones where a student is asked to prove their complete remorse for their sins by providing the names of other students who have transgressed the Honor Code. It smacks of McCarthyism to me and I can't for the life of me figure out what any of it has to do with honor.

This is the worst - the other problem is the double speak they do when they say "you can't be punished anymore if you had sinned during an offense that was done to you, yet the bishop can still pull your endorsement which is effectively being punished for it."

It will be interesting to see what happens with Friday's sit-in protest of the Honors Code Office.

For starters everyone who is capable of growing a beard should do so. I would like to see their attempts to discipline the entire male student body (and possibly some sisters, let's not be sexist here) for claiming ownership of their own faces. Imagine the press they would get. I guess they could always kick them all out and raise everyone else's tithing to compensate the loss.