NOM

http://www.ldsliving.com/5-Reasons-Why- ... awSqmjiZqw

Bill Reel posted this on fb today. The comments are, of course, the best part.

This line “It is an incontestable historical fact that Joseph Smith had in his possession a set of metal plates” has me . Nothing Joseph ever claimed is incontestable.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Brent wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:47 pm I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I said this originally but took it out. Love it!

Interestingly enough, this article concludes with two statements with which I wholeheartedly agree:

If the events described in 3 Nephi 11–30 never actually happened, then the theological power and prophetic testimony contained in this narrative is deeply weakened.

Joseph Smith himself underscored the importance of the ancient record in one of his more dramatic declarations: “Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations and where is our religion? We have none.”

Anon70 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:54 pm This line “It is an incontestable historical fact that Joseph Smith had in his possession a set of metal plates” has me . Nothing Joseph ever claimed is incontestable.

To be fair, I think even people like Dan Vogel would say it's incontestable that Joseph Smith had in his possession a set of metal plates... but I don't think that LDS Living really wants to go down that rabbit hole since most historians have realized how easy it would be for Joseph to have some prop plates made that he could then keep under cloth to fool people.

2. Book of Mormon authors say they will meet readers at the last judgement.

At least two different prophetic authors of the Book of Mormon claim that they will meet readers at the bar of God on the day of judgement. Nephi, at the end of his record, proclaims in 2 Nephi 33:10–11, “And now, my beloved brethren, … Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that [what Nephi wrote] are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar;

Oh please. Nephi and Moroni are going to sit a bar and face every single one of the literally millions of people who have read the Book of Mormon, and then condemn those who heeded every piece of available evidence and logic that said it was a fraud. Now I’m scared, guess I’d been find a way to make myself believe in it even though there are mountains of evidence against it.

4. Joseph Smith maintained a consistent narrative about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon throughout his life.

Did he though? Was it Nephi or Moroni that visited him in the night and told him about the book? Did Moroni start out as a “treasure guardian” and eventually morph into an angel (see http://mormonhistoricsites.org/wp-conte ... ll2001.pdf). Or was he “cut from ear to ear, and the blood streaming down” as Emma’s cousins claimed? The link above lists all kind of discrepancies contemporaries of Joseph claim he told them about Moroni. Was it translated with the Urum and Thummim or a rock in a hat?

Seems to me there is evidence that Joseph was anything but consistent in his narratives about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

LdsLiving is a joke. I find it amusing when it isn’t annoying.

It's also incontestable that the Book of Mormon plagiarizes at least 15.5% of its verses from the bible and writings that were written hundreds and sometimes thousands of years in the future. Not sure how accurate of a history that is. As well as ancient american prophets were able to channel 19th century christian sermons with ideas that appear no where in the OT or even the NT.

https://www.churchistrue.com/blog/anach ... of-mormon/

http://bookofmormondepot.com/kjv-verses/

So what was the point of that article again?

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:30 am LdsLiving is a joke. I find it amusing when it isn’t annoying.

This. I mostly hate that website because DW latches onto every faith-promoting half-truth spewed forth onto those pages.

græy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:01 am

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:30 am LdsLiving is a joke. I find it amusing when it isn’t annoying.

This. I mostly hate that website because DW latches onto every faith-promoting half-truth spewed forth onto those pages.

With the quality and credibility of what that rag has put out, it's amazing to me there's not more oversight by the COB. I'll never forget that article a year or two ago on how the BoA can help you understand how the universe works; drop your astronomy classes! You don't need real science, Kolob got you! What a joke!

"incontestable"





wait a minute.........

I'd like to see them show some actual empirical evidence for the Book of Mormon that is incontestable. Somehow a steel-producing culture of millions of people left no trace. Pretty freakin' contestable if you ask me. By the requirements thy give I think the Koran beats the BoM hands down.

The incontestable evidence they give is weaker than Christian apologists' incontestable evidence of Jesus: the empty tomb and the witnesses of the ascension, neither of which have any support outside of the book in question.

I get a kick out of the idea that one of the best pieces of evidence is that we can imagine a book made out of gold, but we can't actually see it because an angel took it. I don't think the jury would buy that one.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:30 am
I get a kick out of the idea that one of the best pieces of evidence is that we can imagine a book made out of gold, but we can't actually see it because an angel took it. I don't think the jury would buy that one.

This just makes no sense whatsoever. What difference does it make what the plates were made of? Papyrus, copper, brass, sheepskin, gold.....
The writings are what makes the support sacred, not the support itself. Yet here we have the excuse that the gold is what is valued and must be protected for the purpose of preserving the written record. But that excuse doesn't fly anymore.

If the church sent out archeologists to the middle East and they discovered ancient plates of gold with the Old Testament inscribed on them they would bring them to Salt Lake with a parade and they'd want everyone to see them! Look what we found! We want everyone to see them! And I would have to assume that God would approve of them being viewed.

But for some extremely odd and suspiciously inexplicable reason, the BoM plates are "Soooo sacred" that Joseph Smith was the only person on earth holy enough to actually view and handle them.....

Would it have been the same if they had been written on papyrus? Would Moroni still have confiscated them if they were written on clay tablets?

The preservation of the gold seems to be an undergirding of the reasoning for not being able to have the plates in actual physical possession. But there is no fear of that now. No one could take the plates from the church now. The church's poor excuse that God wants us to "live by faith" is being abused here. It's being twisted to support a false narrative.

What if church archeologists had found one or two gold plates written in a reformed Egyptian in South America and when translated it mentioned Nephi or Lehi? Would Moroni suddenly appear and confiscate the plates and say, "Sorry guys, you have to live by faith. I can't let you show these to anyone. I want you to STOP LOOKING for empirical proof, o.k....!?!?"

Where is that selfish Moroni when you need him? I think he's gone off the reservation and just lusts over the plates sitting in a crystal container in his celestial front room. And besides, all of his celestial wives really dig the plates. Total chick magnet.

He could give those puppies up anytime he wants to. But then he'd lose a "sparkly" from his decor.

Heavenly Father:

"You know Moroni, you could really help RMN out down there right now. Couldn't you give up the plates for the sake of the church? You know....just until the resurrection?"

Moroni:

"Nahhh...."

Funny using "Incontestable"...

Personally, I think that anyone focusing on "the plates" is actually missing the point. Joseph DIDN'T USE THE PLATES to create the Book of MORmON. He used a magic rock.

The magic rock is a bit funny too though, isn't it? LDS-Inc. actually has the religious artifact that "created" the Book of MORmON. If there is any "truth" at all in the book, or in MORmONism in general, then that magic rock is literally the most important religious artifact on earth.

The fact that LDS-Inc. has had the magic rock in their possession for ~180 years, and has hidden it speaks volumes to my Fluffy brain. (They know that rocks aren't magic. They know that the Book of MORmON is fiction. They know their entire religion is made up.)

wtfluff wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:14 am The fact that LDS-Inc. has had the magic rock in their possession for ~180 years, and has hidden it speaks volumes to my Fluffy brain. (They know that rocks aren't magic. They know that the Book of MORmON is fiction. They know their entire religion is made up.)

I think they suspect it. They also suspect that God will judge them as worthless if they believe it's all made up. So they call the first suspicions "the temptations of the adversary" and ignore them.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:14 am They know that rocks aren't magic.

Wait just a minute there, mister. Didn't you get the message iPhones are proof that the rock works?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:35 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:14 am They know that rocks aren't magic.

Wait just a minute there, mister. Didn't you get the message iPhones are proof that the rock works?

Doh...