Reddit post- Something I never noticed

[crossmyheart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... testimony/

This is so plain and simple- how did I not even think of this. Why on earth would someone's personal journals and recordings leave behind a challenge to pray to know it is all true?

No other explanation than it is simply made up by a 19th century con-man.

[jfro18]

I'm replying fast here so i apologize if this is a bit jumbled, but I think the apologist answer would be that Moroni tossed that in after the abridgement and whatnot...

I mean it's really obvious once you can see it, but I can see that being waved away by a believing member pretty easily. It's also the excuse when people say it feels like it's written by the same person even though it's a ton of different authors... because it was all magically abridged in one voice.

[Palerider]

I'm replying fast here so i apologize if this is a bit jumbled, but I think the apologist answer would be that Moroni tossed that in after the abridgement and whatnot...

I mean it's really obvious once you can see it, but I can see that being waved away by a believing member pretty easily. It's also the excuse when people say it feels like it's written by the same person even though it's a ton of different authors... because it was all magically abridged in one voice.

Yep, and what's even more magical is that "voice" continues right into the D&C, Pearl of GP, etc., and you can even hear it in Joseph Smith's personal writings.

It's the voice of a MAN.....

[slavereeno]

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... testimony/

This is so plain and simple- how did I not even think of this. Why on earth would someone's personal journals and recordings leave behind a challenge to pray to know it is all true?

No other explanation than it is simply made up by a 19th century con-man.

Haha, I am glad I don't have to make apologist excuses anymore, this is a good point and is easily answered by the "Joseph Smith borrowed it from someone else or made it up" proposition.

[Hagoth]

All I get from that link is "service unavailable." Maybe the avenging angel has been unloosed on Reddit.

[jfro18]

All I get from that link is "service unavailable." Maybe the avenging angel has been unloosed on Reddit.

Weird - I get that now too. Here's the post:

The passages in Moroni where he asks the reader to pray with real intent about the truthfulness of BoM have always baffled me. To my knowledge there are no historical documents that feel the need to support their claims like this - and why would they? You don’t find old testament writers saying that you can pray for confirmation of the exodus from egypt or the existence of david or any of it.

If the events of BoM were accurate, then Moroni wouldn’t feel the need to state the obvious, because of course his people existed and did the things he said they did. Even if Moroni did want to justify himself, why not say dig here to find the horses or something? The much more likely conclusion is that the writer of BoM had no direct knowledge of ancient america... because he lived in the 19th century

[wtfluff]

All I get from that link is "service unavailable." Maybe the avenging angel has been unloosed on Reddit.

Just Reddit having some issues. Keep trying if you're really interested...

[Hagoth]

Joseph Smith's scripture is full of instances where it insists it really, really is real, that it was written by an ancient person in his own hand, that you should overlook the mistakes, that it's hard writing on gold plates, or that the authors could do a much better job if they were allowed to write in their own language. And they usually slip something in there about some future prophet named Joseph (at least the BoM and JST do).

[slavereeno]

Joseph Smith's scripture is full of instances where it insists it really, really is real, that it was written by an ancient person in his own hand, that you should overlook the mistakes, that it's hard writing on gold plates, or that the authors could do a much better job if they were allowed to write in their own language. And they usually slip something in there about some future prophet named Joseph (at least the BoM and JST do).

"The 'ancient prophet' doth protest too much, methinks"

[Just This Guy]

The apologist would respond with something like this:

The BOM was never someone's journal. it was a deliberate abridgement of various documents for a future reader. Moroni was had ended his abridgement work and was filling in the remaining details from his lifetime to complete the record. Because he knew that future people would read it, he put in the promise to read and pray.

I would not consider this a smoking gun, and even as an argument, it is weak at best. There are much better proofs of it being made up elsewhere.