NOM

ugh.

We had a glorious year of complete inactivity. My DH was truly showing signs of NOM-ness. Then the age changes happened and my DD is now in YW 6 months earlier than I had planned. He wants us to be active again "for the kids".

So we have attended church more in the last 3 weeks than the whole of last year. New Beginnings, cub scouts, beehive orientation conference. My DD's first meeting with the bishop is this Sunday. I already have my speech ready for that one.

ANNNNNNDDDD we are already back on the every-member-a-janitor list. Scheduled for this weekend no less! They don't waste time!

DH wants us to go again "for the kids" and has already made arrangements with the other assigned family.

I have told him I will not clean the building for a multi billion dollar corporation.

Do I go and support him, or stand my ground?

I have told our cleaning coordinator, "I won't be upset with you if you assign me to the cleaning list so long as you agree not get upset when I don't do it."

-Lost

I've cleaned the church twice in the last four years. Both times I quickly grab the backpack vacuum and vacuum the chapel in between the pews. It's pretty fun to do with my son who pretends it's a remote controlled jet pack he controls with the cord.

About four years ago when I was vacuuming the stage area in the chapel I noticed a 3x5 card and a sharpie under the sacrament table. Thinking it would be funny, I wrote a quick note that said "I know you masturbated last night!" and slipped it on top of the pull out microphone. I continued to vacuum.

About 15 minutes later my wife comes up to me with a 3X5 card in her hand pushes it up in my face and asks if I wrote this. I said, where did you find that?? She replied your son found it while playing with the sacrament table microphone! I smiled and then denied, denied, denied! She thought "maybe the Bishop wrote it and placed it there, I should put it back". At this point I realized the guilt and shame that such a "message" would cause to one of the poor masturbating priests on Sunday and so I grabbed it from her and ripped it up.

Unfortunately, as an opportunistic mother who never misses a teaching moment with her kids, let's just say the car ride home turned into an impromptu teaching movement about masturbation with our son. She awkwardly tried to ask him if he knew what it meant, why it was bad, etc etc. I drove home as fast as possible and as we pulled into the driveway my son hopped out of the car as fast as possible! Stunned, my wife said to me "I wasn't done talking to him!" I politely pointed out that these types of conversations are extremely awkward for an 11 year old boy to have with his mother especially in the car and suggested I would follow up with him at a more convenient place and time when appropriate as a father son conversation. She was relieved.

The next day we show up to church and notice there aren't any priests sitting at the table and that the usual front row of deacons was replaced with a bunch of old guys. We also noticed the stake presidency sitting on the stand and remembered it was ward conference. The deacons had been replaced by the High Council. When it came time to start the sacrament, the SP and his two counselors got up and walked over to the sacrament table and began to break the bread. Then the SP knelt down and pulled out the sliding microphone and read the sacrament prayer. Stunned, I looked over at the wife and she was gasping in shock and as we caught eyes we both began to hold back our laughter realizing what could have been if my 3X5 card remained up there.

The SP would have pulled out that microphone to a card that said "I know you masturbated last night"!

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:28 am She thought "maybe the Bishop wrote it and placed it there, I should put it back".

Too funny!

You never agreed to clean buildings for the Church. The Church never asked for members' consent when they made the change. They simply pushed it on the members and expected them to comply. Even now in many wards they don't ask you to clean the Church - they assign you and tell you that you have to find someone else if you can't do it. It's an abusive situation really, and I for one am done with it.

It doesn't make you a bad wife if you don't want to let the Church push you around like that, just because your husband does. Supporting him does not have to mean supporting the institution that is exploiting you.

This is one of those things the church does that is really frustrating. If you go then you are supporting the "every member a janitor" bs, but you are spending time with your family. If you don't go then you are holding to your convictions, but you are doing it by yourself.

My kids like cleaning the church, so for now when we get assigned I go and consider it family time. But everyone's tolerance for different crap from the church is different.

Just my two cents, there are worse service projects than cleaning a building where a lot of people come to be uplifted and serve, even if you don't agree with the methods and/or reasons behind it. At least, as long as you don't get stuck in the bathroom.

That said, I complain about it just as much as the next guy. Twice last year, my family were the only ones to show up. One of those times it was just me and my sons. We chased each other with vacuums and did as much as seemed reasonable for one adult and two bored kids, and then left.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:28 am The SP would have pulled out that microphone to a card that said "I know you masturbated last night"!

That is hilarious! I so wish you had left the card there.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:28 amThe SP would have pulled out that microphone to a card that said "I know you masturbated last night"!

A "missed opportunity" for the ages!

I don't mind being a member-janitor once a year. It's the one thing in the Mormon church that feels like I'm doing something nice for my fellow ward members with no indoctrination or manipulation attached or implied.

crossmyheart wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:02 am

I have told him I will not clean the building for a multi billion dollar corporation.

Do I go and support him, or stand my ground?

I guess it just depends on how you have negotiated other things in your marriage. If you support him in other things, this is one thing you don't have to bend on. Sis M knows how I feel about cleaning the building, and I usually bow out, and it causes no problems.

Hopefully you can do the same, if you really feel to stand your ground.

Omgosh haha... RR, hilarious as usual!

Here is my take- do I mind cleaning? Nope. Do I think it’s good for kids to learn to clean for service? Yep. I also think there is something to students cleaning their schools in Japan.

My problem is I used to know people who were paid to clean. Older members who could make a modest income with a pretty easy job. They pulled that rug out from under their feet when they have plenty of money to spare.... that bothers me a hell of a lot.

When I was TBM I preferred cleaning the church to going to church, going to potlucks, RS activities, etc. I'm just not into being sociable in a chit-chat kind of way - I need a purpose and a task. I also preferred cleaning the church alone, so we often did it Friday nights and just messaged whoever what we cleaned. (I often worked Saturdays so this was just a reasonable thing to do as well.)

Now that I'm mentally out, I have no desire to do it. It is just another task I'm supposed to do and I believe there are better ways of doing it. My kids enjoy it though, and I'm all about having them clean so I hate to kill that fire within them. I also support my husband in as nominal a way as possible and cleaning the church is better than going to a ward activity, so unless I have a very good reason for not going, I go. I still hate the chit-chat that goes along with it and I have no idea why it takes people so long to get it done. Our family has a reputation for being very fast and efficient. It is beyond me why anyone wants to waste a Saturday like that. Last time we showed up early and were gone in an hour and took the kids out for doughnuts afterward.

I couldn't stop laughing RR and lasagna came out my nose.
I don't mind cleaning occasionally, but I'm almost always unavailable at 0800 Saturday mornings.
I remember when we were poor and had a crappy vacuum, we would go over to the church on Friday night, clean a bit, and then use the vacuums and supplies to clean and detail our cars.

When faced with a similar dilemma in the Shakespeare dimension, Hamlet decided to clean. Of course, he also lamented, "Alas, Bishop Yorick! I knew him, Elder, he was a priesthood bearer of infinite righteousness, of most pugnacious Republicanism. He hath judged me a thousand times, and now, he wants the building cleaned on Saturday! "

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:46 am You never agreed to clean buildings for the Church. The Church never asked for members' consent when they made the change. They simply pushed it on the members and expected them to comply. Even now in many wards they don't ask you to clean the Church - they assign you and tell you that you have to find someone else if you can't do it. It's an abusive situation really, and I for one am done with it.

It doesn't make you a bad wife if you don't want to let the Church push you around like that, just because your husband does. Supporting him does not have to mean supporting the institution that is exploiting you.

Consent probably falls under consecrate time talents and blessings in the endowment ceremony. In the mind of TSCC of course. I say consent in the temple is not informed so doesnt matter anyway.

Red Ryder wrote: The SP would have pulled out that microphone to a card that said "I know you masturbated last night"! [emoji38]

Favorite story in NOM this year.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:28 am The SP would have pulled out that microphone to a card that said "I know you masturbated last night"!

I suppose by the time you are a steak president you don't need the little cheat sheet to say the prayer, but it would have been even better if he mindlessly read the card into the little microphone.

I have to disagree with those of you who think cleaning the chapel is a good opportunity to serve your fellow ward members. True service isn't compelled, it doesn't involve manipulation, and certainly is not the result of social bullying. The Church is demanding something of you, and you are acceding to its demands. In my ward they don't ask you to clean, they assign you. The Church didn't gently ask if members would start cleaning the building 20 years ago, they demanded it. There most certainly is manipulation involved with it.

I mean, whatever you have to tell yourselves to make yourselves feel better about it if you have to play along for your spouse, but it's another way you give up a little bit of your autonomy to an organization who doesn't think you have any. And you are helping them feel like they can get away with it. If every member refused to clean the Church, the Brethren might decide members aren't so easily pushed around and take a different approach. They have as much power over you as you let them have. Personally, I don't give them that anymore, and if my fellow ward members have disgusting bathrooms, that's the Church's fault, not mine.

Not trying to be offensive, that's just how I see it.

Not Buying It wrote:I have to disagree with those of you who think cleaning the chapel is a good opportunity to serve your fellow ward members. True service isn't compelled, it doesn't involve manipulation, and certainly is not the result of social bullying. The Church is demanding something of you, and you are acceding to its demands. In my ward they don't ask you to clean, they assign you. The Church didn't gently ask if members would start cleaning the building 20 years ago, they demanded it. There most certainly is manipulation involved with it.

I mean, whatever you have to tell yourselves to make yourselves feel better about it if you have to play along for your spouse, but it's another way you give up a little bit of your autonomy to an organization who doesn't think you have any. And you are helping them feel like they can get away with it. If every member refused to clean the Church, the Brethren might decide members aren't so easily pushed around and take a different approach. They have as much power over you as you let them have. Personally, I don't give them that anymore, and if my fellow ward members have disgusting bathrooms, that's the Church's fault, not mine.

Not trying to be offensive, that's just how I see it.

Church "service" is often institutionally incestuous. You are serving them not your fellow man with few exceptions (ie service projects for widows or helping people move).

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:15 am I have to disagree with those of you who think cleaning the chapel is a good opportunity to serve your fellow ward members. True service isn't compelled, it doesn't involve manipulation, and certainly is not the result of social bullying. The Church is demanding something of you, and you are acceding to its demands. In my ward they don't ask you to clean, they assign you. The Church didn't gently ask if members would start cleaning the building 20 years ago, they demanded it. There most certainly is manipulation involved with it.

I mean, whatever you have to tell yourselves to make yourselves feel better about it if you have to play along for your spouse, but it's another way you give up a little bit of your autonomy to an organization who doesn't think you have any. And you are helping them feel like they can get away with it. If every member refused to clean the Church, the Brethren might decide members aren't so easily pushed around and take a different approach. They have as much power over you as you let them have. Personally, I don't give them that anymore, and if my fellow ward members have disgusting bathrooms, that's the Church's fault, not mine.

Not trying to be offensive, that's just how I see it.

Using "whatever you have to tell yourselves..." and "not trying to be offensive" is a pretty good sign that you are trying to be offensive, or you are being offensive without even trying.

I can simultaneously be able and willing to say no to the bishop about the things that really matter to me (no tithing settlement, no tithing, selective about callings, etc) and be thoughtful about what parts of the church I am okay with, or even support. Spending an hour with my wife and kids cleaning a building we use is a good activity to me, so I do it. I consider that a higher level of autonomy than saying no to any activity because it is commanded by the church.