NOM

Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be—neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:288)

Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

2bizE wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:39 am Is there actually anything worthwhile that he ever said?

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:13 am And a wrench in the cogs of the gears:

In NDE literature, reincarnation is profusely discussed, across all cultures INCLUDING Christian, and all geographical and ethnic boundaries. And, a common thread is you get to come back as male in one life, female in the next, and so forth. Why?....because experience and learning is that important.

Does it make sense, therefore, that perhaps someone likes one gender over the other, and therefore comes back asn transvestite, or having other desires/feelings?

The Proclamation is quite revolutionary in scope, and not based in that much LDS theology, which was pretty silent on the idea of gender being eternal. JFS certainly didn't teach it as you have shown.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:09 am

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:13 am And a wrench in the cogs of the gears:

In NDE literature, reincarnation is profusely discussed, across all cultures INCLUDING Christian, and all geographical and ethnic boundaries. And, a common thread is you get to come back as male in one life, female in the next, and so forth. Why?....because experience and learning is that important.

Does it make sense, therefore, that perhaps someone likes one gender over the other, and therefore comes back asn transvestite, or having other desires/feelings?

The Proclamation is quite revolutionary in scope, and not based in that much LDS theology, which was pretty silent on the idea of gender being eternal. JFS certainly didn't teach it as you have shown.

I haven't heard much about reincarnation in a Christian context. Are there any good books or references?

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:09 am

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:13 am And a wrench in the cogs of the gears:

In NDE literature, reincarnation is profusely discussed, across all cultures INCLUDING Christian, and all geographical and ethnic boundaries. And, a common thread is you get to come back as male in one life, female in the next, and so forth. Why?....because experience and learning is that important.

Does it make sense, therefore, that perhaps someone likes one gender over the other, and therefore comes back asn transvestite, or having other desires/feelings?

The Proclamation is quite revolutionary in scope, and not based in that much LDS theology, which was pretty silent on the idea of gender being eternal. JFS certainly didn't teach it as you have shown.

I haven't heard much about reincarnation in a Christian context. Are there any good books or references?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:07 am In his infamous "TK Smoothie" statement, Joseph Fielding Smith said,

Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be—neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:288)

Yet the Proclamation to the World (for which the eagerly awaiting world rejoiced) says:

Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

Neither of these proclamations is prefaced with a "thus saith the Lord," so who's speaking as a man here? And how do we know?

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:42 pm

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:09 am

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:13 am And a wrench in the cogs of the gears:

In NDE literature, reincarnation is profusely discussed, across all cultures INCLUDING Christian, and all geographical and ethnic boundaries. And, a common thread is you get to come back as male in one life, female in the next, and so forth. Why?....because experience and learning is that important.

Does it make sense, therefore, that perhaps someone likes one gender over the other, and therefore comes back asn transvestite, or having other desires/feelings?

The Proclamation is quite revolutionary in scope, and not based in that much LDS theology, which was pretty silent on the idea of gender being eternal. JFS certainly didn't teach it as you have shown.

I haven't heard much about reincarnation in a Christian context. Are there any good books or references?

Most of the books I've read have people who originally identified as Christian (or something else), and then had their belief systems radically changed. Some continue to worship with congregations, but they don't subscribe to the beliefs...they just want to join with others in trying to build hope and peace in the world.

I don't have any specific sources as in "Christians for Reincarnation" (fictitious title), or anything like that. The list of my books include (not in any order), but are not limited to the following:

1. Time to Believe by TJ Owen
2. The Self Does Not Die by Titus Rivas (THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ONE!!!!)
3. Near Death in the ICU by Laurin Bellg
4. Gaze Into Heaven by Marlene Bateman Sullivan (this is the LDS one. Where Joseph Smith is allegedly resurrected. Lets exhume the bones and see for sure!!!).
5. NDEs -- 10 Fascinating Facts by Wayne Pundin
6. Near Death and the Afterlife by Dr. Mark Pederson (this one is weird)
7. Visions of Glory by John Pontius (OK...yeh,..I bought it. So what?)
8. A Greater Tomorrow by Julie Rowe (See above.....lol)

These are kindles.

Some of the Hard Cover ones:
1. Return from Tomorrow by George Ritchie
2. Life After Life by Raymond Moody
3. the Afterlife of Billy Fingers by Annie Kagan
4. ...there was another Raymond Moody book...can't remember right off.
5. The Burning Within by Ranae Wallace (who is a personal friend)
6. Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander
7. Map of Heaven ... by Eben Alexander
8. Doctors and Near-Death Experiences by Jenniffer Weigel (entertaining,...very)
9. Near Death Experirences: The Rest of the Story... by P M H Atwater
10. Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near Death Experiences by Jeffrey Long and Paul Perry (convincing book here).
11. to heaven and Back ... by Dr. Mary C. Neal


I've done hours and hours of GOOGLE reading. I also subscribed to the IANDS organization and have the 2015 conference lectures.

PS. didn't Eliza R. Snow believe in reincarnation?

There is a big problem with reincarnation and resurrection. Guys like Bruce McConkie would burn you in oil for heresy if you tried to argue for reincarnation and discount resurrection.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:31 pm Is Mary Neal the doctor who was in the kayaking accident or similar?

deacon blues wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:48 pm Wow, what a reading list ! I've read a couple of the older books: Moody, Ritchie. But at my speed and the direction of my other reading, I won't get to them until the next life. Are there libraries in the After-life?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:07 am In his infamous "TK Smoothie" statement, Joseph Fielding Smith said,

Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be—neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:288)

Yet the Proclamation to the World (for which the eagerly awaiting world rejoiced) says:

Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

Neither of these proclamations is prefaced with a "thus saith the Lord," so who's speaking as a man here? And how do we know?

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:42 pm The list of my books include (not in any order), but are not limited to the following:
(...)
I've done hours and hours of GOOGLE reading. I also subscribed to the IANDS organization and have the 2015 conference lectures.

slavereeno wrote: ↑Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:33 pm

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:42 pm The list of my books include (not in any order), but are not limited to the following:
(...)
I've done hours and hours of GOOGLE reading. I also subscribed to the IANDS organization and have the 2015 conference lectures.

DW asked me a question the other day when she and I were discussing NDEs and I said I would post here because some of the people here have done more research than I will have time to do for a while.

Her question is: Have there been accounts of people who were "bad" experiencing an NDE and then having a change of heart and living a more harmonious life.

As in some violent criminal that has an NDE then decides he should change his ways? Or are the experiences all from people who were already religious and/or good natured?

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:44 am ALL OF THEM CHANGE THEIR LIVES.....

NDEs are massive eye-opening experiencing events for people. Those who go to hell (and some do) all come back and want to make changes for the better. Love and kindness appear to be currency in that realm. And those who lack it see how much they have wasted their lives...