Wish me luck today :)

[jfro18]

Going with DW together to see the non-LDS therapist I've met with a few times.

I am really anxious about how it's going to go. She is holding off on seeing the LDS therapist based on how this goes, which I think is helpful but also shows how tenuous this could be.

She is still reading the more antagonistic apologists which also makes me nervous because she claims to not care about these things but is going to people who are very aggressive and angry towards critics well beyond FAIR.

I really hope the therapist can help her to understand why she's fighting so hard to listen to me, and I hope that the therapist can help me find better ways to deal with it... I know it's not a one-way street.

Anyway... very nervous so thankfully I have a lot of work to do in the meantime. Not expecting much today since it's the first go around, but hoping we find some common ground to work towards.

[IT_Veteran]

It's a good sign - I wish you luck. Don't lose hope either. My wife found apologetics to be completely unfulfilling and they helped to push her out.

[jfro18]

It's a good sign - I wish you luck. Don't lose hope either. My wife found apologetics to be completely unfulfilling and they helped to push her out.

Thanks! I saw on the Faith Crisis report that was common for a lot of people.

At first she read FAIR and we went over some of those and I explained why they couldn't work, but since she's gone to more aggressive sources (think Daniel Peterson types) and we haven't gotten into details lately but from our last few talks she's gotten much more (trying to think of a gentle way to say it) militant about church issues.

The therapist said that's a very normal reaction to fear and that we would work on addressing what exactly she is afraid of (and on my end what I'm afraid of if my kid goes and she stays full TBM, etc), but I also worry that as soon as we get into that my wife will bail on it.

We'll see... I know it's selfish to want her to know all of this, but I also know it was selfish of her to pull me into the church and tell me never to read anti-Mormon stuff (along with her parents at the time). We have a different story than many I think when it comes to the faith crisis stuff.

[Just This Guy]

Best of luck to the two if you.

[Corsair]

We wish you all the best. This is a step that I really would like to introduce to my wife at some point.

[jfro18]

We wish you all the best. This is a step that I really would like to introduce to my wife at some point.

I'll let you know how I screw it up so you know how to handle it better.

[Emower]

We wish you all the best. This is a step that I really would like to introduce to my wife at some point.

I'll let you know how I screw it up so you know how to handle it better.

I dont know that I and my wife are at therapist level, but I would be very interested to hear a summary about the kinds of things the therapist guides you through, and the things she asks you guys to do. Whatever you are willing to share anyway...

[Linked]

Good luck!

I had a few therapy sessions with my DW and they went really badly. She had/has no desire to address any issues, and would rather live a superficial life with them hidden than address them. It sounds like your relationship is more open to working through things, so I hope it goes better for the two of you.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

I have suggested visiting a therapist to my wife and she flat out said she was worried the therapist would justify my position or side with me. Surprising honesty.

[Mormorrisey]

I have suggested visiting a therapist to my wife and she flat out said she was worried the therapist would justify my position or side with me. Surprising honesty.

That's the challenge for me too - I don't want anything to do with LDS Family Services, and the missus doesn't want a "secular" therapist. It's tough.

But not to threadjack, jfro18. I wish you excellent luck today - that's a great step.

[jfro18]

Good luck!

I had a few therapy sessions with my DW and they went really badly. She had/has no desire to address any issues, and would rather live a superficial life with them hidden than address them. It sounds like your relationship is more open to working through things, so I hope it goes better for the two of you.

I believe this is how my wife feels to be honest... which is why I am so anxious that this will backfire and send her straight to LDS family services. It's hard enough to get someone to open up to issues when they are "neutral," but once you're looking at some really aggressive sources... it's going to be even more difficult. But I hope that we get a breakthrough - I'm very appreciative that she agreed to do it considering she knows it's not an LDS source and that I've already seen her a few times.

I have suggested visiting a therapist to my wife and she flat out said she was worried the therapist would justify my position or side with me. Surprising honesty.

I'm actually nervous this is going to happen. I asked the therapist a few times if she will "take sides" on issues and she said that she's not trying to arbitrate but to facilitate conversations... but then she mentioned that she will try to redirect and in this case a lot of it will be addressing the fears for me and her of moving forward with the church in our lives or without it. I get nervous that is where things could fall apart quickly.


And thank you everyone for the kind thoughts... I will post anything helpful here because I think anything I can contribute that might help any of you is worth posting. Obviously I won't post any super personal details, but I will definitely post the ups and downs of this because if it can help me I hope it can help at least a few of you.

[jfro18]

The first go at it went OK... not great or good,but OK. And OK is good for a first session considering how these things go.

I think it'll be helpful to have a third party redirecting the conversations, although I think we're both hunkered down right now and so I guess the real hope is that she opens up a bit to talking through this stuff.

We're going again next week so hopefully with a few sessions we'll see where things can go. If today is any indication, these sessions are going to move very slowly.

Fingers crossed some good comes out of it.

[Red Ryder]

Sounds like it went well.

Having been through this last year it pays to be open and vulnerable and honest. We had an LDS therapist in private practice so not LDSFS. It worked because we didn’t have to spend time explaining or teaching her about Mormonism. She already knew and did a great job facilitating discussion and learning to recover from bad discussions and focus on positive discussions going forward. Keep us updated.

[slavereeno]

Best of Luck Jfro, I am also reading along with interest.

[Linked]

I'm glad your first visit went OK jfro! Hopefully this will help open the doors of communication between you and your DW.

[Hagoth]

Fingers crossed some good comes out of it.

I've never done this but I can't imagine that everyone would just open up and get it all in the open on the first session. It seems like you need to build some comfort/trust with the therapist and get a handle on how it all works.

Good luck on round 2!

[jfro18]

I've never done this but I can't imagine that everyone would just open up and get it all in the open on the first session. It seems like you need to build some comfort/trust with the therapist and get a handle on how it all works.

Good luck on round 2!

I don't expect much progress (if any comes at all) for a while, even though it's hard to remind myself of that sometimes when I hope for quicker progress know it won't happen right away.

Tomorrow is round two... curious to see how it goes. I know she is super retrenched with church stuff especially since she started reading the more antagonistic apologetics, but hopefully we can find more constructive ways to talk about these things along with figuring out how to raise out kid in a mixed faith marriage (assuming she continues to have no interest in discussing church issues with me).

The therapist told me early on that trying to overcome the 'fear' of learning info that contradicts such tightly held beliefs can take a long time... I just have a fear that if the therapist starts to lean into that at all that my wife will just shut down. But like you said - that's probably still a while away.

[jfro18]

Round two went OK... we kind of went through areas we agree on to try and build a foundation to work from. It is difficult because while we agree on almost all "moral" type things, the big differences come on areas where the church drives a wedge such as LGBT.

After that we talked for a bit about church stuff and how to find a way to allow our kid to both learn about it (by going) and also hear why I have a problem with it. That's going to be a long work in progress for so many reasons.

One thing that just shocks me is how she's gotten to a point of just saying things along the lines of 'I am happy with the church and so I'm not going to listen to things that might change that.' It's not really a surprise, but it is just tough to hear especially since she is reading a lot of hardline apologetics lately.

She also said she would never enter polygamy in the afterlife "unless the prophet told me to." I don't know why that bothers me so much since I don't believe it will happen, but it really creeps me out.

Anyway... round three is likely in January with the holidays, so we'll see. Too early to say how helpful it is, but I think it gives us both a channel to be honest with each other without it getting too heated so that's definitely a positive.

[slavereeno]

One thing that just shocks me is how she's gotten to a point of just saying things along the lines of 'I am happy with the church and so I'm not going to listen to things that might change that.' It's not really a surprise, but it is just tough to hear especially since she is reading a lot of hardline apologetics lately.

I think this is pretty typical of the TBMs in my life. Which at the moment feels like everybody I know. I guess I feel like if that's their position, they know it's not true deep down inside or at least the cognitive dissonance is eating at them. Otherwise they would be excited to be exonerated by the facts.

Still it sucks, I'm flinging empathy vibes your way.

[wtfluff]

...they know it's not true deep down inside...

I personally try to avoid the above statement, and even avoid thinking it, because there are plenty of believers in my life who would likely say: "You know deep down in side that it's ™True."

...or at least the cognitive dissonance is eating at them...

Now this I love. Or "everyone has doubts". But as a believer you are taught to shelve and ignore the doubts.

Otherwise they would be excited to be exonerated by the facts.

And there's the buh-zillion dollar statement. Which lead back to: Why don't believers want to be exonerated? I know that I personally was unable to flat out ask my non-believing sibling "what happened" or "why". I don't remember the church blatantly teaching me to "not ask why someone doesn't believe" yet I was afraid to ask. So does that lead back to: I knew deep down inside that it wasn't true?

I'm so confused...