NOM

Yesterday was the third anniversary of the Church's November 5th policy making same-sex marriage apostasy, and the children of married gays and lesbians ineligible for baptism, the Gift of the Holy Ghost, priesthood, and other ordinances. Unless they disavow their parents' relationship. And turn 18. This has been called The Policy, The Policy of Exclusion, and in a telling way--the POX.

Historically, the word "pox" has been associated with the terrible worldwide plague of smallpox, caused by the virus Orthopoxvirus variola, a potentially fatal communicable disease. Infection by the virus was caused by breathing in air droplets from too close contact with other infected persons. The wikipedia article says this:

It was transmitted from one person to another primarily through prolonged face-to-face contact with an infected person, usually within a distance of 1.8 m (6 feet)

Close contact was important--you could avoid catching smallpox by avoiding infected persons.

I have noticed that certain older members of the Q15 genuinely believe that being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender is an evil choice made by evil people, who see this "depravity" in others and desire to partake. Our youth are even susceptible to recruitment--to infection. It is very important to limit contact between the Saints and those who live these corrupted "lifestyles". They have grudgingly claimed that being LGBT is a "complex reality" for a certain number of people, but do not actually believe it. E Oaks' talk a month ago in GC was laden with this belief. In order for his talk to actually make sense, you have to approach it from this perspective (otherwise the Plan of Salvation is a complete failure because it consigns a fairly consistent percentage of God's children to lesser glory, completely without their agency).

I think E Oaks quite simply believes that if LGBT people wanted Celestial glory, they would just choose not to be LGBT. It's that simple in his head. (Otherwise, he fails as a follower, disciple, and Apostle of Christ because he is perfectly willing to allow the one sheep to perish in order to save the ninety-nine. And he is happy to "forbid" the little ones to come unto Christ... maybe he is actually that terrible? I have a hard time imagining it, but it seems to be the only explanation I can come up with...)

These older members of the Q15 have watched in great alarm as LGBT people have come out of the shadows and been accepted as they are by good people. They have watched in even greater alarm as our LGBT brothers and sisters have formed stable relationships and family units, and have shown by example that they are just like every other family blessed by God. They saw these unions and families as a dangerous pox or cancer, threatening to undo decades of teachings that their desire to love and be loved, and to have families, is altogether evil and represents a wholesale rejection of Christ's Atonement and the Plan of Salvation. What could be done about this?

These LGBT members and their families are a cancer. They must be cut out. They are a pox, and we must quarantine them away from the body of Christ lest it be infected and die. The only thing to be done is to cut these families out. If thine right eye offend thee, pluck it out.

The irony of the Policy is that it has become a pox on them and the Church. It forced many of the Saints into a cognitively dissonant examination of the place of LGBT people in the Church, and to question the goodness of the Church and the "inspiration" of the Brethren. It has caused others to have an even lower regard for the LDS Church (and with good reason...) and its members.

There was an immediate effect of the POX, an acute illness--fever, headache, malaise... Then things went quiet. But much like other viruses that hide within the host's DNA, this is a virus that hides within the Body of Christ--causing cumulative damage over time. How many families will be driven away? How many good LGBT folk and their children will never trust the Church again? Little by little, how many people will awaken to the horror of this policy, coming to a dreadful understanding that it is incompatible with Christ's teachings?

And how many Saints must maintain a twisted justification for the Policy in their minds, at great cost, in order to keep the illusion alive? In order to maintain their belief in the goodness of the Church, in the inspiration of the Prophets?

On a personal note, it was three years ago today that I finally understood what E Oaks thought of me. What E Nelson thought of me. That I finally understood their plans for me--to cut me out in order to save the Body of Christ.

They actually did me a big favor that day, because I was holding on year after year trying to make it work. Nov 5 2015 made a swift end to that.

Thanks for your well-informed thoughts, achilles.

We're all infected here. Sometimes I wonder whether the other apostles really did read the faith crisis report, but only took away the idea that it's an epidemic. You're affected by this disease idea twice over, though. That must be hard.

The church's understanding of sin is horribly broken. If you disobey God, it goes, you become unclean, and some things make you filthier than other things. This encourages reasoning about sin as if it's contagious. People who did the filthy thing or even just wanted to must be filthy. Best keep your distance from them. It spreads, you know.

So you judge and you fear and you feel disgusted. And if you know you're filthy inside, you can't ever let on, and you judge and you fear and you feel disgusted by yourself.

We know better now. In particular, achilles, you're just awesome as you are, and as clean as you were on the day you were born. Thanks for sticking around.

That was a powerful post Achilles!
Lots of hugs to you and all my LGBT+ brothers and sisters on this difficult anniversary.

Great post! I can't believe it's been that long, seems like a year ago that crap went down. I'm just so grateful non of my kids have to deal with it anymore, especially my gay one. She seems so happy out in Colorado with her partner, going on seven years now. I really hope they can make it out here for Thanksgiving this year.

Thanks Achilles. I had to come back and read and "ponder" this again. The church has this huge missionary force trying to drag all kinds of people to church EXCEPT certain children. And it's a policy of love to "protect" them. This swirls around and around in my head like a black tornado that can never make sense until you see the hatred behind it.

Jesus: "suffer the little chldren to come unto me. No, not the darkies, you idiots! Just shove them behind that wall where I won't have to look at them... out of love, mind you!" The only thing we are protecting them from is hearing our own bigoted, hateful language about their families. That's loving?

I was on my mission before African descended men could have the priesthood (which happened when I was there). We were told not to teach their kind (oops, I did anyway and got to know some amazing people). When we were tracting we were told to skip "black" streets. How could you identfy those houses,I asked. The answer was that you look for crappy houses with cadillacs in the driveway and just walk right by. But it was out of love, see. We loved them enough to protect them from having to listen to our own bigoted attitudes about them. And what if kids from our ward wanted to go over to their black houses and play with their black children? That makes baby Jesus cry.

Too bad we didn't yet have the restored truth that would have allowed us to invite them to church at age eighteen, after we had treated them like disease vectors up until now, if they would simply move out of their parents' house and denounce their despicable black ways.

I have probably mentioned this exchange on this board, but it's worth repeating. My daughter is Lesbian and married her girlfriend in a lovely ceremony last year. I give full credit to my fully believing wife for being a supportive, loving mother to our daughter. She is still a full believer and still asks me for priesthood blessings despite fully knowing my unbelief.

A week or two after the POX was made public (much to the obvious chagrin of the institutional church), My wife and I were at dinner with her sister and brother-in-law. Brother-in-law wanted to understand my wife's feelings on the matter, but he is also a fairly arrogant apologist. So his approach was a little smug and he asked my wife how she felt about this policy and how it would affect our daughter.

But my wife shut him down pretty quickly. "Stop it. I know about it and I don't want to talk about it. Change the subject". Audibly slamming her utensils down may have been part of the exchange. I really did want to high five my wife at that point. But the subject at dinner did dutifully change. I suspect that this deep seated awkwardness is bothering a lot of believing Mormons.

I'm having trouble remembering a scripture. Can someone help me out?

It was when Jesus said something like, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea, unless that little one has gay parents, in which case put the millstone on the kid."

Did I get that right?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:43 pm I'm having trouble remembering a scripture. Can someone help me out?

It was when Jesus said something like, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea, unless that little one has gay parents, in which case put the millstone on the kid."

Did I get that right?

That is apparently the version some people use, even with this pretended change of the policy.

Random wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:45 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:43 pm I'm having trouble remembering a scripture. Can someone help me out?

It was when Jesus said something like, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea, unless that little one has gay parents, in which case put the millstone on the kid."

Did I get that right?

That is apparently the version some people use, even with this pretended change of the policy.

And that's what is so insidious about it. It is a face-saving change, not really a change of heart or even a way of asking members to be more accepting.

achilles wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:43 pm And how many Saints must maintain a twisted justification for the Policy in their minds, at great cost, in order to keep the illusion alive? In order to maintain their belief in the goodness of the Church, in the inspiration of the Prophets?

Your whole post was beautiful. I wanted to comment on this. The PoX made me realize how crazy the apologetics could get. The community I had in the church was not worth the effed-up mind games.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:15 pm

Random wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:45 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:43 pm I'm having trouble remembering a scripture. Can someone help me out?

It was when Jesus said something like, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea, unless that little one has gay parents, in which case put the millstone on the kid."

Did I get that right?

That is apparently the version some people use, even with this pretended change of the policy.

And that's what is so insidious about it. It is a face-saving change, not really a change of heart or even a way of asking members to be more accepting.

The scary part is as much as they have said it has changed, the PoX IS STILL IN PLACE!!

The CHI still calls for members in same-sex marriages to be considered as apostates and to be handled as such. Children of Gay parents are still not allow babtism. The only difference is that instead of going to the PS for an exemption, it is now at the bishop's level to grant exemptions.

Spin it how they want, the PoX is still very much in force. Rusty is now trying to shift blame off him and onto the low level lackeys for this now.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:15 pmAnd that's what is so insidious about it. It is a face-saving change, not really a change of heart or even a way of asking members to be more accepting.

Exactly!!