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Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:12 pm
by deacon blues
The "Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes" edited by John S. Dinger offer a candid view of Joseph Smith, and how he used his power in Nauvoo. Pages 238-268 give an unvarnished view, of Joseph and Hyrum using carefully worded denials of polygamy, (lies actually: "polygamy revelation only applies to past times." ) questionable language, (stricken out by later editors), and reviling (see: 1 Peter 2:23) to arouse the city council to go along with their plan to destroy the "Nauvoo Expositor." "Saints: A Standard of Truth" would be improved (as a standard of truth) by showing a "warts and all" view of these hallowed leaders.
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:03 pm
by Palerider
I'm sorry, but there is only one correlated way to view even.....Joseph Smith Jr.
- Super Joe.jpg (137.41 KiB) Viewed 7278 times
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:09 pm
by 2bizE
Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:03 pm
I'm sorry, but there is only one correlated way to view even.....Joseph Smith Jr.
Super Joe.jpg
What does the uncorrelated view look like?
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:58 pm
by blazerb
2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:09 pm
What does the uncorrelated view look like?
I think of Loki from the Thor movies. A complicated rogue who was sometimes on your side.
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:22 pm
by Palerider
2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:09 pm
What does the uncorrelated view look like?
A bit like Wickham from Pride and Prejudice???
- 63ba4d16edc1c2f2c4ad53dd6b51a29f--jane-austen-pride-and-prejudice-.jpg (35.83 KiB) Viewed 7220 times
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:37 pm
by jfro18
Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:22 pm
2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:09 pm
What does the uncorrelated view look like?
A bit like Wickham from Pride and Prejudice???
63ba4d16edc1c2f2c4ad53dd6b51a29f--jane-austen-pride-and-prejudice-.jpg
Next time DW watched P&P I'm gonna need to bite me tongue to not say this, because it's perfect.
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:37 am
by Brent
Loki simply entertains himself with little regard of consequence...
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:47 am
by MoPag
Brent wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:37 am
Loki simply entertains himself with little regard of consequence...
maybe that's what JS was doing all along...
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:00 am
by Corsair
Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:22 pm
2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:09 pm
What does the uncorrelated view look like?
A bit like Wickham from Pride and Prejudice???
Who will be playing the role of Mr Darcy? Will it be William Law? If we are looking for a complicated, but ulitimately principled, man in the early church my vote would go to Brother Law. Except that Pride and Prejudice would be a
very different story with Wickham dying in gun battle lynching and Mr. Darcy just leaving town forever wanting nothing to do with these religious weirdos.
On the other hand, a solid gun battle and midnight lynching of Mr. Wickham might be exactly what many modern audiences would want from Pride and Prejudice.
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:15 am
by deacon blues
When I read the new "Saints" book, I felt it unfairly denigrated William Law.
1. It say Law was guilty of adultery. This is based solely, on testimony of Joseph Smith who also said: "They make it a criminality for a man to have a wife on earth while he has one in heaven, according to the keys of the Holy Priesthood; and he then read a statement of William Law's from the Expositor, where the truth of God was transformed into a lie concerning this thing." (Nauvoo City Council, p. 254)Joseph is the one lying here, because he
knew he and others had multiple wives on
earth. Hyrum, who in the same Nauvoo Council hearing said, "the revelation.... was in answer to a question concerning things which transpired in former day and had no reference to the present time". At the "present time" Hyrum had five living wives. (Nauvoo City Coucil, p. 241.)
It is clear Joseph and Hyrum didn't hesitate to lie (use carefully worded denials
) to protect themselves.
2. It claims Law plotted to kill the Smiths. No mention is made that Law consistently denied this. This is based on the testimony of one Denison Harris (nephew of Martin Harris) whose testimony is more credible than Joseph's and Hyrum's, but the statement was made to Joseph F. Smith and a couple of others in 1881: almost 40 years after the events described.
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:42 am
by Palerider
deacon blues wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:15 am
When I read the new "Saints" book, I felt it unfairly denigrated William Law.
1. It say Law was guilty of adultery. This is based solely, on testimony of Joseph Smith who also said: "They make it a criminality for a man to have a wife on earth while he has one in heaven, according to the keys of the Holy Priesthood; and he then read a statement of William Law's from the Expositor, where the truth of God was transformed into a lie concerning this thing." (Nauvoo City Council, p. 254)Joseph is the one lying here, because he
knew he and others had multiple wives on
earth. Hyrum, who in the same Nauvoo Council hearing said, "the revelation.... was in answer to a question concerning things which transpired in former day and had no reference to the present time". At the "present time" Hyrum had five living wives. (Nauvoo City Coucil, p. 241.)
It is clear Joseph and Hyrum didn't hesitate to lie (use carefully worded denials
) to protect themselves.
2. It claims Law plotted to kill the Smiths. No mention is made that Law consistently denied this. This is based on the testimony of one Denison Harris (nephew of Martin Harris) whose testimony is more credible than Joseph's and Hyrum's, but the statement was made to Joseph F. Smith and a couple of others in 1881: almost 40 years after the events described.
Pretty disgusting.
I remember being taught that Law was headed for "outer darkness" and is a son of perdition.
Years later I read an interview he did with a local news paper many years after he had left the church. Most everything he said was quite logical and believable. I started wondering where the Satanic monster was I'd been told about.
Truth be known, Law had more courage and integrity than Joseph or Hyrum ever thought of having. Considering those frontier times I think Joseph played the game and finally won the prize. I wish he had lived to be convicted in court and sent to jail. His death was pretty much his own fault.
Is there a place online where we can read these minutes? I found one source but could only access the first half up to about page 135.
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:46 am
by deacon blues
I don’t know of any place online to read this. I’ll keep my eyes open and let you know if I find one.
Re: Joseph Smith with warts: June 10, 1844.
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:56 am
by Evil_Bert
- stjoetherandy.jpg (24.93 KiB) Viewed 7009 times
Here is a picture of St. Joseph the Randy. If the CoJCoLDS did stained glass this would be in every building.