NOM

Read the DN article, tl/dr: nothing to see here folks.
Read the newsroom, tl/dr: fake news!
Read the legal brief: after you get done vomiting come back and discuss.

- Two perpetrators have died by suicide
-At least one of them confessed
- Grandma's journals
-Video of "touching parties" allegedly recorded by Sister Miles
-6/7 children have said it happened.
- Medical records of injuries being surgically repaired.

WTAF?

Bill Reel is following updating with links:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1307236400

It seems highly suspicious, considering that these accusations date back to the ritualistic abuse frenzy of the '80s. When the FBI investigated that phenomena they found zero evidence of verifiable claims but lots of examples of implanted memories and people looking for revenge and/or attention.

I'm not going to write this off entirely yet, but I think it should be taken with a 40-lb bag of salt. I really hope it didn't happen.

The other possibility, of course, is that it did happen to a lesser degree and became magnified in recovered/implanted memories.

ETA: Whoa! I just read the complaint. There's a lot of crazy-specific and horrific detail there. The fact that some of the purported perpetrators committed suicide, that one of them was professionally diagnosed as a pedophile, the verification of physical internal scarring, and the intervention (if it's true) of two apostles makes me think there must be something behind this story. What will likely be impossible to nail down without better evidence, however, are the identities of the Jane and John Does.

I know the Miles, I went to school with their kids. I even had Dick as a Bishop at college. I worked closely with him when I had a calling in the ward. I spent many nights as his "second" during interviews/appointments. Nothing weird ever happened.

I am very suspect of the claims against his family. Especially when I hear the name of Barbara Snow tossed around. From what I can tell, she is an outcast in her field from all the issues she caused.

The kids were definitely abused, their dad/stepdad committed suicide when the walls were closing in.

I guess we will see how this plays out. More than likely, with the case being dropped because it never moves forward, or because it is dimissed.

I can tell you about a lot of other weird stuff going on in Bountiful in the 80's and 90's (nudist parties, swinging, lots of divorces because of abuse of authority...)

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:18 pm It seems highly suspicious, considering that these accusations date back to the ritualistic abuse frenzy of the '80s. When the FBI investigated that phenomena they found zero evidence of verifiable claims but lots of examples of implanted memories and people looking for revenge and/or attention.

I'm not going to write this off entirely yet, but I think it should be taken with a 40-lb bag of salt. I really hope it didn't happen.

The other possibility, of course, is that it did happen to a lesser degree and became magnified in recovered/implanted memories.

ETA: Whoa! I just read the complaint. There's a lot of crazy-specific and horrific detail there. The fact that some of the purported perpetrators committed suicide, that one of them was professionally diagnosed as a pedophile, the verification of physical internal scarring, and the intervention (if it's true) of two apostles makes me think there must be something behind this story. What will likely be impossible to nail down without better evidence, however, are the identities of the Jane and John Does.

So, I think there are some nuances here--

*Satanic* ritual abuse was supposedly not found in evidence during the 80s frenzy.

The 1980s was a minefield of bad therapy practices AND some bad research practices in psychology and therapy, which is a confound.

Some are now questioning whether recovered memories that were debunked may actually have been legitimate (in reference to many types of trauma not specifically SRA.)

Through my professional background, I am aware of some evidence of SRA or at least RA whether Satanic or not, occurring in the MorCor area. I can't go into detail though.

That said, abuse could be abuse that is systematic, organized, but not necessarily associated per se with religious rituals. "Touching parties" ... etc.


I have been called to assist with underage victims who were passed around at hunting camps as a regular practice by parents. There's no question that sort of thing is a thing.

I do not doubt something happened and would not be in the least surprised if the church is and was covering it up including influence in the local law enforcement. Whether it was "SRA" or "RA" or a group of sickos organized or a few individuals? Idk.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:42 pm Read the legal brief: after you get done vomiting come back and discuss.

- Two perpetrators have died by suicide
-At least one of them confessed
- Grandma's journals
-Video of "touching parties" allegedly recorded by Sister Miles
-6/7 children have said it happened.
- Medical records of injuries being surgically repaired.

I'm VERY skeptical of any sort of recovered memories, so my initial reaction was that the allegations are unlikely to be true. But this sounds crazy. Where is this legal brief?

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:16 am

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:42 pm Read the legal brief: after you get done vomiting come back and discuss.

- Two perpetrators have died by suicide
-At least one of them confessed
- Grandma's journals
-Video of "touching parties" allegedly recorded by Sister Miles
-6/7 children have said it happened.
- Medical records of injuries being surgically repaired.

I'm VERY skeptical of any sort of recovered memories, so my initial reaction was that the allegations are unlikely to be true. But this sounds crazy. Where is this legal brief?

Old old case. Not old because it is based on recovered memories, but old because it was ignored and covered up and not tried because back then, children were just not believed, and there were no protections for them to testify, so ultimately, this case never went to trial because the witnesses were children. It isn’t a case of Satanic abuse, just sex parties. And as far as I remember, none of the victims based any testimony on “recovered memories”. Some just never talked about it until they were old enough to begin to cope with it. Most of the victims here told their stories as children, so here we are not dealing with therapist induced fake memories.

I don’t remember much, but I read the book about this case some 20+ years ago, in fact, I may still have it somewhere. From both my experience as an abuse survivor and as therapist to other survivors, I am pretty sure this case is legit. The case was never tried because the parents of the children refused to let them be damaged further by testifying in open court. Back then, the protections we have for child witnesses did not exist.

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:16 am Where is this legal brief?

https://kutv.com/news/local/daughter-of ... llegations
Scroll to the bottom

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:06 am

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:16 am Where is this legal brief?

https://kutv.com/news/local/daughter-of ... llegations
Scroll to the bottom

Proceed with caution. Have a puke bucket ready.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:28 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:06 am

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:16 am Where is this legal brief?

https://kutv.com/news/local/daughter-of ... llegations
Scroll to the bottom

Proceed with caution. Have a puke bucket ready.

yeah, I forgot to add the WARNING!

Thanks, and I consider myself warned!

Wow. That was hard to read. Gold standard my a$$.