NOM

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:25 pm Maybe that is a new narrative being woven at the MTC. God does not need to give the answer, because you had already received it along the way. No need for Dorothy to seek answers from Glinda or the Wizard when the answer was that there is no place like home all along.

Reuben wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:57 pm

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:25 pm Maybe that is a new narrative being woven at the MTC. God does not need to give the answer, because you had already received it along the way. No need for Dorothy to seek answers from Glinda or the Wizard when the answer was that there is no place like home all along.

Wouldn't that be strange if Mormonism moved toward scriptural self-attestation. "It's true because I found God in it" rather than "It's true because God told me so."

deacon blues wrote: ↑Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:01 am I had a spiritual experience on my mission that turned into a deja vu experience. When we baptized a family of four I had a peculiar exhilarating, moist, sweaty, tired feeling. I remember thinking 1st, "Is this the Spirit telling me the Church is true." 2nd, "This reminds me of a feeling I had long ago, in fact it seems identical." 3rd, "Now I remember, This is how I felt when I completed my mile swim boy scout requirement at Green Canyon Hot Springs when I was around 12 years old.

wtfluff wrote:I don't know if this is new. I remember using this sort of epistemology during my believing tenure, so it's been around for at least 30 or 40 years.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:08 pm

wtfluff wrote:I don't know if this is new. I remember using this sort of epistemology during my believing tenure, so it's been around for at least 30 or 40 years.

True, I remember this from my mission/youth. IIRC, they talked about how because we had the gift of the holy spook from age 8, we were so used to feeling the spirit all the time that manifestations and burning bosom experiences may not happen for everyone as expected.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:13 pm I agree that the general concept has been around for a long time, but I feel like I'm sensing a shift shift toward teaching that you should not even expect a direct answer to a specific question, as exhibited in the "Holy Ghost is not a vending machine" comment. I see it as something like how you should look down your nose at anyone who would tempt God in expecting anything like revelation or healing from modern prophets. It's the "do you have the testimony to not be healed" mentality, but expanded beyond church leaders to include the Holy Ghost. Just be patient and look for any feeling that might come along that you can cling to as your answer for some unanswered prayer from your past - any good feeling will do, just plug it in the hole that you need filled. That actually gives more power to leaders because the implicit answer is just to trust and follow them until the Holy Ghost gets around to confirming that they're right, maybe next year, maybe on your deathbed.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:13 pm I agree that the general concept has been around for a long time, but I feel like I'm sensing a shift shift toward teaching that you should not even expect a direct answer to a specific question, as exhibited in the "Holy Ghost is not a vending machine" comment.

Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:59 am

deacon blues wrote: ↑Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:01 am I had a spiritual experience on my mission that turned into a deja vu experience. When we baptized a family of four I had a peculiar exhilarating, moist, sweaty, tired feeling. I remember thinking 1st, "Is this the Spirit telling me the Church is true." 2nd, "This reminds me of a feeling I had long ago, in fact it seems identical." 3rd, "Now I remember, This is how I felt when I completed my mile swim boy scout requirement at Green Canyon Hot Springs when I was around 12 years old.

Green Canyon hot springs! How long it's been since I was there....

Almost 50 years.

I'd read portions of the BofM before my mission but finally read it cover to cover while in the field.

When I was done I had the distinct feeling come to me that it was not scripture. Very distinct. Then I read the D&C and had the feeling that both books were from the same source.
Because my testimony of the Savior had come from reading the New Testament WHILE I WAS A MORMON, I decided to shelve my doubts and continued my mission in good faith to what I had committed to do. I had no hard evidence at the time that the whole thing was bogus.

It took another 35 years for me to slowly figure out that there is a distinction between a testimony of the Savior and a testimony of the LDS church.

And I think this is where members come to a false conclusion. Just because we recognize some of the good things in the church or have a testimony of Christ and his atonement while being in the Mormon church, DOESN'T MAKE THE WHOLE THING TRUE.

The church can have some truth and still be full of false teachings. The Mormon church teaches this principle about other churches ALL THE TIME but they think it's impossible that it might actually apply to them!

So they have to resort to these ridiculous mind games and mental tap dances to get their kids to go on missions.

It makes leadership look desperate and absurd. (Which they are.)

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:57 am Pres. Eyring lived in our ward, and though I didn't know him well, I figured anybody as smart and sincere and humble as he was had to be right about the gospel.